1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,620 Alright, there we go. 2 00:00:01,620 --> 00:00:04,169 We are live. Hello everyone. 3 00:00:04,169 --> 00:00:06,149 I'm Jim Armstrong, Professor 4 00:00:06,149 --> 00:00:08,310 of English at Winona State University. 5 00:00:08,310 --> 00:00:11,100 We're here for a discussion on the, 6 00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:13,049 on vernacular speech in poetry. 7 00:00:13,049 --> 00:00:13,800 And I'm going to have 8 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,020 the various attendees to 9 00:00:16,020 --> 00:00:18,869 this panel introduce themselves. 10 00:00:18,869 --> 00:00:19,994 I'll start with myself. 11 00:00:19,994 --> 00:00:23,340 I am the poet on staff here. 12 00:00:23,340 --> 00:00:24,569 I teach creative writing, 13 00:00:24,569 --> 00:00:27,989 I teach beginning and advanced poetry. 14 00:00:27,989 --> 00:00:31,289 But I also have a scholarly interests both 15 00:00:31,289 --> 00:00:33,120 in the 19th century but 16 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,970 currently in the poetry of William Stafford, 17 00:00:35,970 --> 00:00:37,885 some kind of poet scholar. 18 00:00:37,885 --> 00:00:39,349 But my interest in 19 00:00:39,349 --> 00:00:41,494 the vernacular is that I was raised in a, 20 00:00:41,494 --> 00:00:43,520 in a dye glossy family. 21 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,550 My mother was from Western Kentucky, 22 00:00:46,550 --> 00:00:49,534 a descendant of hillbillies who had migrated 23 00:00:49,534 --> 00:00:52,339 out of Appalachian out into Western Kentucky. 24 00:00:52,339 --> 00:00:55,459 So I grew up going every summer to the south. 25 00:00:55,459 --> 00:00:57,755 And so I have in my speech, 26 00:00:57,755 --> 00:00:58,880 like I often say, 27 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,485 I'm fixin to do something. 28 00:01:00,485 --> 00:01:02,149 And my people will say, 29 00:01:02,149 --> 00:01:03,484 What the hell are you talking about? 30 00:01:03,484 --> 00:01:05,150 Why are you going to do anything? 31 00:01:05,150 --> 00:01:07,865 So for a long time, 32 00:01:07,865 --> 00:01:09,800 I didn't I didn't 33 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,450 identify with the southern 34 00:01:11,450 --> 00:01:12,620 part of my upbringing, 35 00:01:12,620 --> 00:01:13,789 but I've gotten to be very 36 00:01:13,789 --> 00:01:15,350 fond of it and very interested in it. 37 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:18,230 So andrew, why don't you go next. 38 00:01:18,230 --> 00:01:20,389 Hi, I'm Andrew. I'm a professor 39 00:01:20,389 --> 00:01:21,979 of English and went on to state. 40 00:01:21,979 --> 00:01:25,700 And I am coming at the question of 41 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:28,549 dialect from a his history 42 00:01:28,549 --> 00:01:29,629 of the language perspective. 43 00:01:29,629 --> 00:01:31,730 So how, how have 44 00:01:31,730 --> 00:01:33,199 dialects existed in the language 45 00:01:33,199 --> 00:01:35,165 of previous points in history? 46 00:01:35,165 --> 00:01:38,570 And my own personal story 47 00:01:38,570 --> 00:01:40,189 is a little bit not 48 00:01:40,189 --> 00:01:41,854 that interesting except for I, 49 00:01:41,854 --> 00:01:43,400 I grew up in Cleveland where 50 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:45,200 everything is up in the nose and nasally. 51 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:46,910 So I always have to remember 52 00:01:46,910 --> 00:01:49,504 the difference between in 53 00:01:49,504 --> 00:01:51,410 my vowels when I speak because I know it's 54 00:01:51,410 --> 00:01:53,915 a little bit my nose so I'm more, 55 00:01:53,915 --> 00:01:55,190 I guess I'm, I guess like 56 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:56,449 the more I teach history, 57 00:01:56,449 --> 00:01:58,294 the English language in particular. 58 00:01:58,294 --> 00:02:02,300 Things with that I, I am really self-aware of 59 00:02:02,300 --> 00:02:06,110 my own sounds and words and their location. 60 00:02:06,110 --> 00:02:08,480 Even though I've basically just move down, 61 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:10,009 I-90 my entire life. 62 00:02:10,009 --> 00:02:14,629 So alright Dilev. 63 00:02:14,629 --> 00:02:16,864 Hi, I'm did Dilev Larsen. 64 00:02:16,864 --> 00:02:18,050 I'm also a professor of English 65 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:19,489 here at Winona State University, 66 00:02:19,489 --> 00:02:23,059 I am the Director of the tesol program, 67 00:02:23,059 --> 00:02:24,110 which is teaching English to 68 00:02:24,110 --> 00:02:26,134 speakers of other languages. 69 00:02:26,134 --> 00:02:29,480 Which means that, well, um, 70 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,460 and by education, I guess I 71 00:02:31,460 --> 00:02:33,469 am officially an applied linguist. 72 00:02:33,469 --> 00:02:34,970 But here at Winona State, 73 00:02:34,970 --> 00:02:39,890 I work a lot with students who 74 00:02:39,890 --> 00:02:42,910 are studying to become teachers of 75 00:02:42,910 --> 00:02:44,890 English and especially as 76 00:02:44,890 --> 00:02:46,375 a second language of course. 77 00:02:46,375 --> 00:02:49,630 And my relationship with 78 00:02:49,630 --> 00:02:54,385 this topic of that gloss, yea, if you will, 79 00:02:54,385 --> 00:02:55,690 is, well, first of all, 80 00:02:55,690 --> 00:02:57,190 I'm a non native speaker of English 81 00:02:57,190 --> 00:02:58,780 myself and I started 82 00:02:58,780 --> 00:02:59,950 learning English back in 83 00:02:59,950 --> 00:03:03,039 the eighties in my home country of Denmark. 84 00:03:03,039 --> 00:03:06,159 And back then, the, 85 00:03:06,159 --> 00:03:07,869 we very much were 86 00:03:07,869 --> 00:03:10,044 expected to learn the standard. 87 00:03:10,044 --> 00:03:11,739 But English has changed 88 00:03:11,739 --> 00:03:13,059 a lot since the eighties. 89 00:03:13,059 --> 00:03:16,194 And one of my big interests of, 90 00:03:16,194 --> 00:03:17,860 in terms of research these days is 91 00:03:17,860 --> 00:03:19,854 English as a lingua franco, 92 00:03:19,854 --> 00:03:21,490 a world language way, 93 00:03:21,490 --> 00:03:22,854 international communication. 94 00:03:22,854 --> 00:03:25,670 And I try to sort of like include that 95 00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:28,729 in my teacher education courses 96 00:03:28,729 --> 00:03:30,110 and talk a lot about how 97 00:03:30,110 --> 00:03:31,490 this actually has created a lot 98 00:03:31,490 --> 00:03:33,350 of varieties and also 99 00:03:33,350 --> 00:03:34,550 create conditions for it. 100 00:03:34,550 --> 00:03:35,660 I, Galatia and all kinds 101 00:03:35,660 --> 00:03:37,625 of different parts of the world. 102 00:03:37,625 --> 00:03:40,340 And trying to make students aware of the fact 103 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:43,850 that one of the most important things to 104 00:03:43,850 --> 00:03:44,990 think about when we think about 105 00:03:44,990 --> 00:03:47,000 sociolinguistics and the different usages of 106 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,880 language is that it's 107 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:51,560 kind of like almost a quote from, 108 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,150 from one of the textbooks that I'm 109 00:03:53,150 --> 00:03:54,380 using when we start talking 110 00:03:54,380 --> 00:03:55,640 about sociolinguistics, 111 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,005 we have to remember that 112 00:03:57,005 --> 00:03:58,370 it's very important to 113 00:03:58,370 --> 00:03:59,990 recognize that from 114 00:03:59,990 --> 00:04:01,459 a linguistic point of view, 115 00:04:01,459 --> 00:04:03,260 there are no varieties of 116 00:04:03,260 --> 00:04:04,400 a language that I inherently 117 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:06,049 better than any others. 118 00:04:06,049 --> 00:04:08,360 They all seem to be different. 119 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,840 Alright, Brooke, I am 120 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,430 Boulton and I also teach 121 00:04:13,430 --> 00:04:15,619 English at Winona State. 122 00:04:15,619 --> 00:04:19,684 And when I was 123 00:04:19,684 --> 00:04:21,920 creating some notes for today about the 124 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,469 glossy I wrote down for me. 125 00:04:24,469 --> 00:04:26,210 Take glossy, it is the result 126 00:04:26,210 --> 00:04:27,905 of being educated. 127 00:04:27,905 --> 00:04:30,425 And I think this, 128 00:04:30,425 --> 00:04:32,089 this connects to my experience of 129 00:04:32,089 --> 00:04:33,979 coming from the south. 130 00:04:33,979 --> 00:04:36,559 So growing up in, in Tennessee and having all 131 00:04:36,559 --> 00:04:39,289 of my family in Southern Tennessee, 132 00:04:39,289 --> 00:04:41,794 North Georgia, Birmingham, Alabama, 133 00:04:41,794 --> 00:04:43,639 and being a transplant to 134 00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:45,829 the North and really carrying 135 00:04:45,829 --> 00:04:48,064 Not a lot about language and 136 00:04:48,064 --> 00:04:50,854 almost none of the accident with me. 137 00:04:50,854 --> 00:04:55,399 So my connections with 138 00:04:55,399 --> 00:04:57,290 how I speak when I'm at home 139 00:04:57,290 --> 00:05:00,110 or or how I speak when I'm up north, 140 00:05:00,110 --> 00:05:01,250 which I really associate with 141 00:05:01,250 --> 00:05:03,530 my professional life to 142 00:05:03,530 --> 00:05:04,655 me have been a result 143 00:05:04,655 --> 00:05:07,925 of my experiences in education. 144 00:05:07,925 --> 00:05:10,654 I share similar I research interests 145 00:05:10,654 --> 00:05:13,054 with Dr. Larson. 146 00:05:13,054 --> 00:05:16,069 My I wrote my dissertation of sort of about 147 00:05:16,069 --> 00:05:17,330 the intersection of language 148 00:05:17,330 --> 00:05:19,744 and identity, mostly in writing. 149 00:05:19,744 --> 00:05:24,680 How multilingual speakers negotiate meaning, 150 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,979 especially in academic writing processes. 151 00:05:27,979 --> 00:05:29,720 And how students really 152 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,790 strive to try to express 153 00:05:31,790 --> 00:05:34,760 their authentic selves in 154 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,139 English by translating 155 00:05:36,139 --> 00:05:37,879 through their native language. 156 00:05:37,879 --> 00:05:39,920 And I, I really enjoyed when I 157 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,035 was reading on Melissa's work, 158 00:05:42,035 --> 00:05:43,520 thinking about some of those 159 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,140 translation processes 160 00:05:45,140 --> 00:05:46,519 from before or 161 00:05:46,519 --> 00:05:48,484 between standard English and 162 00:05:48,484 --> 00:05:51,499 standard american Southern English. 163 00:05:51,499 --> 00:05:52,895 If hello. 164 00:05:52,895 --> 00:05:55,069 Thank you. And I should say 165 00:05:55,069 --> 00:05:56,480 the April Hernandez was going to 166 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:57,919 join us today and I'm sorry, 167 00:05:57,919 --> 00:05:59,359 she couldn't because she 168 00:05:59,359 --> 00:06:01,070 is our West Virginian. 169 00:06:01,070 --> 00:06:03,635 Unabashedly westward didn't, 170 00:06:03,635 --> 00:06:05,000 but she was unable to come, 171 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,799 but she sends her best wishes and I will 172 00:06:06,799 --> 00:06:08,885 tell a story about her little later. 173 00:06:08,885 --> 00:06:10,925 But I want to say Melissa range 174 00:06:10,925 --> 00:06:12,499 is R. I'm going to put a plug for 175 00:06:12,499 --> 00:06:16,100 your book is our is our central focus here. 176 00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:19,835 But because of her book for him and which, 177 00:06:19,835 --> 00:06:21,710 which has a lot of poems, 178 00:06:21,710 --> 00:06:22,759 I deal with this issue, 179 00:06:22,759 --> 00:06:25,414 so I'll have her introduce herself briefly. 180 00:06:25,414 --> 00:06:28,189 Pay all. And I might as well start with 181 00:06:28,189 --> 00:06:31,145 you all because I say that word every day. 182 00:06:31,145 --> 00:06:32,930 So I'm Melissa range, 183 00:06:32,930 --> 00:06:34,730 I'm a poet and I teach at 184 00:06:34,730 --> 00:06:36,980 Lawrence University in Appleton, Wisconsin. 185 00:06:36,980 --> 00:06:40,265 So just a few hours to the east of ya'll. 186 00:06:40,265 --> 00:06:43,190 And, and I teach creative writing. 187 00:06:43,190 --> 00:06:44,705 I teach poetry workshops. 188 00:06:44,705 --> 00:06:46,489 I teach 19th century American literature, 189 00:06:46,489 --> 00:06:48,185 I teach contemporary poetry. 190 00:06:48,185 --> 00:06:49,909 And I have a particular focus 191 00:06:49,909 --> 00:06:51,439 on women writers. 192 00:06:51,439 --> 00:06:53,689 Writers of color are working class writers. 193 00:06:53,689 --> 00:06:56,854 And let's see, 194 00:06:56,854 --> 00:06:57,604 I feel like 195 00:06:57,604 --> 00:06:59,675 my relationship to the vernacular. 196 00:06:59,675 --> 00:07:01,699 I don't really think about it much 197 00:07:01,699 --> 00:07:04,145 until somebody talks to me about it. 198 00:07:04,145 --> 00:07:07,009 And that happens with some frequency. 199 00:07:07,009 --> 00:07:12,020 So I feel like when I was in my twenties, 200 00:07:12,020 --> 00:07:13,249 I had, I was at 201 00:07:13,249 --> 00:07:14,450 a writer's residency and 202 00:07:14,450 --> 00:07:15,620 that I will never forget this. 203 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:18,110 Some older New York lady 204 00:07:18,110 --> 00:07:20,284 who really thought she was being, 205 00:07:20,284 --> 00:07:23,900 well, maybe, I guess she was just like dia. 206 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:25,969 You must get rid of your accent will know. 207 00:07:25,969 --> 00:07:27,019 And I think she wasn't 208 00:07:27,019 --> 00:07:28,775 even Southern. I can't do her accent. 209 00:07:28,775 --> 00:07:30,709 You'll idea, No one will ever take 210 00:07:30,709 --> 00:07:31,579 you seriously unless you 211 00:07:31,579 --> 00:07:32,614 get rid of your accent. 212 00:07:32,614 --> 00:07:34,310 And I said, Well, I'm not 213 00:07:34,310 --> 00:07:36,080 going to get rid of my x and that's who I am. 214 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:37,715 And she was just like, all right then. 215 00:07:37,715 --> 00:07:39,259 So I thought was very 216 00:07:39,259 --> 00:07:41,000 interesting to me and I thought, well, 217 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,499 why people think the southern accent is dumb? 218 00:07:45,499 --> 00:07:47,930 Or any number of other accidents 219 00:07:47,930 --> 00:07:49,700 are dumb in some way 220 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:51,349 or like there's a class marker. 221 00:07:51,349 --> 00:07:53,089 And so I'm super interested in that. 222 00:07:53,089 --> 00:07:54,349 And so I just decided that a 223 00:07:54,349 --> 00:07:55,939 young age that I am 224 00:07:55,939 --> 00:07:57,170 going to wear my class and 225 00:07:57,170 --> 00:07:58,970 my region marker every day. 226 00:07:58,970 --> 00:08:00,080 And if you want to talk to me 227 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,834 about it, I'm going to talk to them about it. 228 00:08:01,834 --> 00:08:03,619 So some of the poems in 229 00:08:03,619 --> 00:08:05,390 his book come from just, 230 00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:06,619 you know, years of being 231 00:08:06,619 --> 00:08:08,345 made fun of or how talk. 232 00:08:08,345 --> 00:08:11,644 But also being very proud 233 00:08:11,644 --> 00:08:14,690 of the people I come from and 234 00:08:14,690 --> 00:08:16,880 how they talk and how 235 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,219 their musical language really 236 00:08:19,219 --> 00:08:21,094 I think helps me become a poet. 237 00:08:21,094 --> 00:08:22,010 So there's a lot of 238 00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:23,884 interesting stuff going on there. 239 00:08:23,884 --> 00:08:25,970 And I will say that 240 00:08:25,970 --> 00:08:27,199 the April story that 241 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:28,129 I was going to tell him that 242 00:08:28,129 --> 00:08:29,809 I remember her telling me 243 00:08:29,809 --> 00:08:32,390 that when she went to college, 244 00:08:32,390 --> 00:08:34,609 she was told she had to take 245 00:08:34,609 --> 00:08:37,159 a class in D Southern refine her language. 246 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:38,810 She was like, uh, with how to 247 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:41,195 talk how to talk proper. 248 00:08:41,195 --> 00:08:43,310 And being April, she refused 249 00:08:43,310 --> 00:08:44,990 to take the class. 250 00:08:44,990 --> 00:08:47,930 But I just reached to add onto that story. 251 00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:50,510 I recently, just yesterday in class, 252 00:08:50,510 --> 00:08:51,679 was talking about your 253 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,329 book and a student told 254 00:08:53,329 --> 00:08:56,734 me that he went to high school in Alabama. 255 00:08:56,734 --> 00:08:57,545 Yeah. 256 00:08:57,545 --> 00:08:58,804 I know you've done them. 257 00:08:58,804 --> 00:09:01,009 Yeah. He he said he 258 00:09:01,009 --> 00:09:03,229 was he was pretty much forced to 259 00:09:03,229 --> 00:09:04,910 teach a class as 260 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:06,500 a student because he was from 261 00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:07,609 the north to 262 00:09:07,609 --> 00:09:09,949 his fellow Alabama high-school students 263 00:09:09,949 --> 00:09:11,600 on how to talk proper. 264 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,609 And the result he said was 265 00:09:13,609 --> 00:09:16,290 that he got a southern accent out of it. 266 00:09:21,100 --> 00:09:23,269 And now let's see, 267 00:09:23,269 --> 00:09:24,920 Did you want me to read a poem, Jim? 268 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,179 Why don't you read hit? 269 00:09:26,179 --> 00:09:27,529 I'm gonna read hit. 270 00:09:27,529 --> 00:09:29,000 And it's been a while since I 271 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,529 read it. Let's see. 272 00:09:30,529 --> 00:09:36,229 I guess maybe I'll 273 00:09:36,229 --> 00:09:40,175 just read it and not introduced here. 274 00:09:40,175 --> 00:09:45,020 Okay. Hit. Hit was 275 00:09:45,020 --> 00:09:46,250 give to me and 276 00:09:46,250 --> 00:09:47,360 the old people's way of 277 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,040 talking and hits a hit, 278 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,730 sometimes, sometimes hit this plum 279 00:09:52,730 --> 00:09:53,989 forgot and I drop 280 00:09:53,989 --> 00:09:56,059 the age that starts hillbilly, 281 00:09:56,059 --> 00:09:59,105 hell, fire, hateful, hope. 282 00:09:59,105 --> 00:10:01,549 Sometimes hit hits the back of 283 00:10:01,549 --> 00:10:04,429 my teeth and fight his way out for hits, 284 00:10:04,429 --> 00:10:06,470 been around and hits tough. 285 00:10:06,470 --> 00:10:10,759 His old English hits, middle hits, country. 286 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:12,139 And it will hit on you all day 287 00:10:12,139 --> 00:10:14,179 long if you'll lipid. 288 00:10:14,179 --> 00:10:16,279 When I hit the books, they 289 00:10:16,279 --> 00:10:18,569 tried to hit hit out of me. 290 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:29,489 Whoops, You froze. When it hits back. 291 00:10:30,010 --> 00:10:33,304 You froze for that last bit. 292 00:10:33,304 --> 00:10:34,370 Okay. 293 00:10:34,370 --> 00:10:36,005 Which part did not freeze on? 294 00:10:36,005 --> 00:10:38,315 You stop with hid out to me. 295 00:10:38,315 --> 00:10:40,025 Okay. Let me just start 296 00:10:40,025 --> 00:10:41,975 I'll start back at that part and finishes. 297 00:10:41,975 --> 00:10:43,744 When I hit the books. 298 00:10:43,744 --> 00:10:45,544 They tried to hit hit out of me. 299 00:10:45,544 --> 00:10:48,229 But yeah, it's been hit below the belt and 300 00:10:48,229 --> 00:10:51,230 above and hit still hit the sack. 301 00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:54,110 Sometimes you can hit hit like a nail on 302 00:10:54,110 --> 00:10:57,569 the head and sometimes hit hits back. 303 00:10:58,030 --> 00:11:00,049 So what reactions do 304 00:11:00,049 --> 00:11:02,969 our panelists have to that home? 305 00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:09,169 So I think that's great. 306 00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:12,529 The historical I mean, 307 00:11:12,529 --> 00:11:14,209 because it's really about I 308 00:11:14,209 --> 00:11:15,289 was thinking because even when you said 309 00:11:15,289 --> 00:11:16,999 ya'll like pronouns and 310 00:11:16,999 --> 00:11:18,260 life history of pronouns, 311 00:11:18,260 --> 00:11:19,670 like that's kind of 312 00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:20,689 part of that and all that. 313 00:11:20,689 --> 00:11:25,355 So It's just fascinating to me to think about 314 00:11:25,355 --> 00:11:27,079 all the different ways 315 00:11:27,079 --> 00:11:28,550 we can look at 316 00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:30,589 dialogue maps of Middle English and things. 317 00:11:30,589 --> 00:11:31,939 All the different pronouns that were 318 00:11:31,939 --> 00:11:34,700 out there at 1 319 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:39,319 historically that have kind of boil 320 00:11:39,319 --> 00:11:40,609 down to ones that are 321 00:11:40,609 --> 00:11:42,904 okay and the ones that are not okay. 322 00:11:42,904 --> 00:11:46,009 You know, sort of existing in part 323 00:11:46,009 --> 00:11:47,780 because of prescriptive grammar 324 00:11:47,780 --> 00:11:49,850 of the 18th and 19th century. 325 00:11:49,850 --> 00:11:51,410 It's sort of decided here is 326 00:11:51,410 --> 00:11:53,255 proper in, here is not proper. 327 00:11:53,255 --> 00:11:56,090 And you had a loss 328 00:11:56,090 --> 00:11:57,709 of so many different things that 329 00:11:57,709 --> 00:12:00,290 included different ways of 330 00:12:00,290 --> 00:12:03,664 expressing it or something like that or hit. 331 00:12:03,664 --> 00:12:07,339 And so the all one always I 332 00:12:07,339 --> 00:12:11,150 think is great because we've, we have one. 333 00:12:11,150 --> 00:12:15,335 English is such a in its prescriptive, 334 00:12:15,335 --> 00:12:17,750 formal sense is kind of dumb. 335 00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:21,364 And so far as having 1 second person pronoun, 336 00:12:21,364 --> 00:12:24,335 do all the work of both plural and singular. 337 00:12:24,335 --> 00:12:27,454 And historically, not only were there 338 00:12:27,454 --> 00:12:28,939 different pronouns 339 00:12:28,939 --> 00:12:31,789 for second person singular, 340 00:12:31,789 --> 00:12:33,379 but there was a different one for plural, 341 00:12:33,379 --> 00:12:35,210 and there wasn't one for dual. 342 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:38,900 So in Old English there was a dual yet. 343 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:42,365 Yet it was for two. 344 00:12:42,365 --> 00:12:45,109 So you had a 12 and a more than 345 00:12:45,109 --> 00:12:48,409 2 second person pronoun. 346 00:12:48,409 --> 00:12:50,509 So on the one hand, 347 00:12:50,509 --> 00:12:52,594 it's too bad that those options 348 00:12:52,594 --> 00:12:54,859 are no longer sanctioned options, 349 00:12:54,859 --> 00:12:57,684 you know, uh, approved option. 350 00:12:57,684 --> 00:12:59,060 So that on the other hand, 351 00:12:59,060 --> 00:13:00,079 I think it's interesting then 352 00:13:00,079 --> 00:13:01,189 because that allows for 353 00:13:01,189 --> 00:13:02,630 regional expressions to sort 354 00:13:02,630 --> 00:13:03,919 of come in and take that place. 355 00:13:03,919 --> 00:13:07,190 And you can have use in some places. 356 00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:10,385 And Yin's in Pittsburgh and you know, 357 00:13:10,385 --> 00:13:12,229 ya'll and a bunch of other places, 358 00:13:12,229 --> 00:13:14,285 so all right. 359 00:13:14,285 --> 00:13:17,529 That's it. A game. 360 00:13:17,529 --> 00:13:18,710 I was curious. Have you ever 361 00:13:18,710 --> 00:13:20,015 used this booming class? 362 00:13:20,015 --> 00:13:21,604 Has anybody used in the class? 363 00:13:21,604 --> 00:13:23,915 We're reading this book and class. Yeah. 364 00:13:23,915 --> 00:13:26,630 So have you read this particular poem? 365 00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:27,934 I have not. 366 00:13:27,934 --> 00:13:29,299 I mean, I've read it but I haven't read 367 00:13:29,299 --> 00:13:31,129 it in class with students. 368 00:13:31,129 --> 00:13:32,074 Not yet. 369 00:13:32,074 --> 00:13:34,610 Okay. Because what I was thinking, you know, 370 00:13:34,610 --> 00:13:35,750 when when it because if 371 00:13:35,750 --> 00:13:37,609 students just read it silently, 372 00:13:37,609 --> 00:13:39,484 i'm, I'm, I'm wondering, 373 00:13:39,484 --> 00:13:41,330 do they even pick up on it? 374 00:13:41,330 --> 00:13:42,844 I didn't pick up on 375 00:13:42,844 --> 00:13:45,860 this pronoun play on 376 00:13:45,860 --> 00:13:47,839 words or whatever that's going on here? 377 00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:49,640 Or are they simply just looking at 378 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,560 the word hit and try to pick out one house. 379 00:13:51,560 --> 00:13:53,495 How does hit fit into all this? 380 00:13:53,495 --> 00:13:56,045 And not even seeing, you know, how, 381 00:13:56,045 --> 00:13:58,040 how this is playing on the, 382 00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,660 on the pronunciation of 383 00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:02,419 the pronoun rather than anything else. 384 00:14:02,419 --> 00:14:03,829 Yeah, Luckily, there'll be 385 00:14:03,829 --> 00:14:05,850 able to watch this video. 386 00:14:05,860 --> 00:14:07,880 I guess I should 387 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,679 probably stay for any students watching this, 388 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:10,460 you're still like, wait, 389 00:14:10,460 --> 00:14:11,644 what does she talking about? 390 00:14:11,644 --> 00:14:14,434 So when I grew up, my grandmother 391 00:14:14,434 --> 00:14:17,554 both would say hit instead of it. 392 00:14:17,554 --> 00:14:19,100 And I don't really hear that much 393 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:20,584 anymore among 394 00:14:20,584 --> 00:14:22,100 the Maya were younger generations. 395 00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:23,149 I don't think they're very much, but among 396 00:14:23,149 --> 00:14:24,260 my grandmother's generations 397 00:14:24,260 --> 00:14:24,770 they would say things 398 00:14:24,770 --> 00:14:25,579 like hits the right 399 00:14:25,579 --> 00:14:27,694 and instead if it's raining. 400 00:14:27,694 --> 00:14:30,454 And so I love that. 401 00:14:30,454 --> 00:14:32,630 And I think part of me kind of 402 00:14:32,630 --> 00:14:33,739 growing up and going 403 00:14:33,739 --> 00:14:34,999 out in different places in the world. 404 00:14:34,999 --> 00:14:36,679 It's kind of that, that loss of 405 00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:38,360 that particular kind of 406 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,410 phrase that is so 407 00:14:39,410 --> 00:14:40,820 musical to me, it's interesting. 408 00:14:40,820 --> 00:14:44,209 And when I come in my PhD program, I am, 409 00:14:44,209 --> 00:14:46,384 I took old English for 410 00:14:46,384 --> 00:14:48,979 a couple of semesters and I know, yeah. 411 00:14:48,979 --> 00:14:52,579 And so when I saw that hit Old English, 412 00:14:52,579 --> 00:14:53,824 I was like, What? 413 00:14:53,824 --> 00:14:55,564 Wow, it was so exciting to me. 414 00:14:55,564 --> 00:14:57,530 So that's where that comes from. 415 00:14:57,530 --> 00:14:59,239 Yeah, and then by Middle English, 416 00:14:59,239 --> 00:15:00,289 it's already dying out. 417 00:15:00,289 --> 00:15:01,910 You know, I mean, I 418 00:15:01,910 --> 00:15:03,290 think that has something to do if there 419 00:15:03,290 --> 00:15:06,020 were a lot of words in 420 00:15:06,020 --> 00:15:07,760 the middle in Old English that sort 421 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,874 of decay like wax, 422 00:15:09,874 --> 00:15:11,300 even, you know, where he'd 423 00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:12,890 be eventually becomes quiet. 424 00:15:12,890 --> 00:15:15,019 And then eventually once, right, 425 00:15:15,019 --> 00:15:17,180 where the aspiration almost either sort 426 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:19,384 of moves from the beginning of the word, 427 00:15:19,384 --> 00:15:21,140 the middle of the word and then 428 00:15:21,140 --> 00:15:23,554 disappears altogether. So it's interesting. 429 00:15:23,554 --> 00:15:25,580 I think there's actually norther. 430 00:15:25,580 --> 00:15:27,109 It's a Northern dialect, 431 00:15:27,109 --> 00:15:28,789 which makes sense why 432 00:15:28,789 --> 00:15:30,229 Northern dialect would end 433 00:15:30,229 --> 00:15:31,999 up influencing Southern dialects. 434 00:15:31,999 --> 00:15:33,469 Northern dialect in England 435 00:15:33,469 --> 00:15:34,879 would influence southern dialect. 436 00:15:34,879 --> 00:15:38,810 Here. It stays in the Northern dialect for a 437 00:15:38,810 --> 00:15:40,910 lot longer than it 438 00:15:40,910 --> 00:15:43,130 does in the southern dialect historically. 439 00:15:43,130 --> 00:15:46,309 So that's cool. 440 00:15:46,309 --> 00:15:48,139 And Brooke, when you're growing 441 00:15:48,139 --> 00:15:49,355 up in high school, 442 00:15:49,355 --> 00:15:52,279 was there like a strong class association 443 00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:54,510 with that kind of thing? 444 00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:58,910 You know, I don't I don't know. 445 00:15:58,910 --> 00:16:01,904 And Jim and I have talked about this before. 446 00:16:01,904 --> 00:16:05,439 Meet me not remembering ever having 447 00:16:05,439 --> 00:16:07,375 an axon and definitely 448 00:16:07,375 --> 00:16:09,909 not remembering ever losing it. 449 00:16:09,909 --> 00:16:15,430 But this poem hit home with me. 450 00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:18,519 Because when I read it, 451 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:20,110 I was not thinking about 452 00:16:20,110 --> 00:16:21,774 Old English pronouns. 453 00:16:21,774 --> 00:16:23,065 I was thinking about 454 00:16:23,065 --> 00:16:25,660 the criticism that I've always received 455 00:16:25,660 --> 00:16:27,925 while living up north for 456 00:16:27,925 --> 00:16:33,025 the over annunciation of the H in wh words. 457 00:16:33,025 --> 00:16:35,169 And that's something that my friends will 458 00:16:35,169 --> 00:16:37,539 always call me out on, you know, broke. 459 00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:39,790 You want some wheat thins or 460 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:42,114 something like that where there that's, 461 00:16:42,114 --> 00:16:43,089 that's one of those things 462 00:16:43,089 --> 00:16:44,355 that they really here. 463 00:16:44,355 --> 00:16:48,214 I felt very natural to me. 464 00:16:48,214 --> 00:16:50,120 Like because like you 465 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,620 were talking about you're on grandma. 466 00:16:51,620 --> 00:16:53,119 My my grandma does that 467 00:16:53,119 --> 00:16:55,519 to hearing that that hit. 468 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:57,530 I just I never knew that it 469 00:16:57,530 --> 00:17:01,190 had historical connection with Old English, 470 00:17:01,190 --> 00:17:02,960 so I learned something today. 471 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:06,410 Actually, I I would like to just 472 00:17:06,410 --> 00:17:09,200 follow up on something that broke. 473 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,735 Just said you started out saying, 474 00:17:11,735 --> 00:17:14,525 I don't remember ever losing it, 475 00:17:14,525 --> 00:17:16,174 referring to her accent, never. 476 00:17:16,174 --> 00:17:18,199 Remember ever losing your accent. 477 00:17:18,199 --> 00:17:19,164 Here's one of those three. 478 00:17:19,164 --> 00:17:20,869 Another thing, talk to 479 00:17:20,869 --> 00:17:22,789 my students about when I teach introduction 480 00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:24,649 to linguistics and when we talk about some of 481 00:17:24,649 --> 00:17:26,659 the stuff in teacher ed classes, 482 00:17:26,659 --> 00:17:27,949 teaching English and learning English 483 00:17:27,949 --> 00:17:29,970 and all those kind of things is, 484 00:17:30,730 --> 00:17:33,020 I mean, the man train 485 00:17:33,020 --> 00:17:35,434 linguistic Has everybody has an accent. 486 00:17:35,434 --> 00:17:37,309 I mean, there's nobody who 487 00:17:37,309 --> 00:17:39,260 does not have an accent. 488 00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:42,320 It's just that people tend to think that 489 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,459 the way they speak is 490 00:17:43,459 --> 00:17:45,395 without an accent. But it's not. 491 00:17:45,395 --> 00:17:47,509 I mean, it's, there's an axon to 492 00:17:47,509 --> 00:17:48,605 other people who speak 493 00:17:48,605 --> 00:17:49,670 with a different accent. 494 00:17:49,670 --> 00:17:52,219 So I can't, I can't 495 00:17:52,219 --> 00:17:53,869 begin to tell you how many times I 496 00:17:53,869 --> 00:17:55,549 hear something like I where you're from. 497 00:17:55,549 --> 00:17:57,215 I mean, I thought I'd be detected an accent. 498 00:17:57,215 --> 00:17:58,549 And I said, well, my response 499 00:17:58,549 --> 00:17:59,569 to that usually is yes, All good. 500 00:17:59,569 --> 00:18:02,989 I I, 501 00:18:02,989 --> 00:18:04,129 because you gotta be 502 00:18:04,129 --> 00:18:05,074 the person who's saying that 503 00:18:05,074 --> 00:18:07,594 Jimmy has an accent, him or herself. 504 00:18:07,594 --> 00:18:09,230 There's no such thing as 505 00:18:09,230 --> 00:18:10,730 speaking without an x and an x. 506 00:18:10,730 --> 00:18:12,050 And this could be regional, 507 00:18:12,050 --> 00:18:12,800 It could be social, 508 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,779 it could be whatever it might be, 509 00:18:14,779 --> 00:18:15,950 but it's still something that 510 00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:18,364 is distinct from either, 511 00:18:18,364 --> 00:18:23,120 either it's completely either it's 512 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:25,519 completely individual or it's something that 513 00:18:25,519 --> 00:18:26,749 a part of a group 514 00:18:26,749 --> 00:18:28,745 that a certain person belongs to, 515 00:18:28,745 --> 00:18:31,190 but it's not something that somebody else 516 00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:33,725 has and you don't have that assumption. 517 00:18:33,725 --> 00:18:35,420 Yeah, that assumption of neutrality 518 00:18:35,420 --> 00:18:37,130 gets at the class thing, right? 519 00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:38,420 Yeah, that, that assumption 520 00:18:38,420 --> 00:18:41,374 that somehow, you know, 521 00:18:41,374 --> 00:18:44,149 the neutral accent is somehow 522 00:18:44,149 --> 00:18:46,460 the non accent assumes 523 00:18:46,460 --> 00:18:47,630 the superiority of that 524 00:18:47,630 --> 00:18:48,980 accent over another one. 525 00:18:48,980 --> 00:18:50,029 Yeah, I was, I was 526 00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:51,094 telling him this yesterday. 527 00:18:51,094 --> 00:18:52,130 I was reading an article 528 00:18:52,130 --> 00:18:53,630 about a production 529 00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:55,294 of Shakespeare in Yorkshire. 530 00:18:55,294 --> 00:18:57,799 And there were up in arms that they were 531 00:18:57,799 --> 00:19:00,754 using a Yorkshire dialect for Shakespeare. 532 00:19:00,754 --> 00:19:02,659 And I was sort of pissed when I, 533 00:19:02,659 --> 00:19:05,029 excuse me, I was angry when I read that. 534 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:07,804 And as I've already yeah, there we go. 535 00:19:07,804 --> 00:19:09,770 I was angry when I read that because 536 00:19:09,770 --> 00:19:11,810 I'm thinking to myself like, okay. 537 00:19:11,810 --> 00:19:13,009 So you want to pronounce 538 00:19:13,009 --> 00:19:15,019 Shakespeare in what you see as 539 00:19:15,019 --> 00:19:16,369 Received Pronunciation 540 00:19:16,369 --> 00:19:18,860 normal Queen's English, whatever. 541 00:19:18,860 --> 00:19:20,614 But Queen's English of 542 00:19:20,614 --> 00:19:23,240 2022 is not the way 543 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,500 Shakespeare would have sounded anyway. 544 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:27,005 So, and I was thinking to myself, I'm, 545 00:19:27,005 --> 00:19:28,340 I've never been to 546 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:29,299 a Shakespeare production in 547 00:19:29,299 --> 00:19:32,029 the cells. Do they do it? 548 00:19:32,029 --> 00:19:34,399 Maybe others who have can answer this if 549 00:19:34,399 --> 00:19:36,724 you have been to myself, is, 550 00:19:36,724 --> 00:19:38,299 is there a deliberate kind 551 00:19:38,299 --> 00:19:43,085 of masking of dialect? 552 00:19:43,085 --> 00:19:44,059 Because I mean, you go 553 00:19:44,059 --> 00:19:45,139 to one in Minnesota and 554 00:19:45,139 --> 00:19:46,159 everybody speaks and sort of 555 00:19:46,159 --> 00:19:48,570 neutral midwestern accent. 556 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,750 I don't know what I would love to know if 557 00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:56,689 there's a Shakespeare Company in Virginia, 558 00:19:56,689 --> 00:19:59,450 what it sounds like or West Virginia? 559 00:19:59,450 --> 00:20:02,059 I don't know. That's I'll put that out there. 560 00:20:02,059 --> 00:20:03,619 I'm going to look on YouTube and look later. 561 00:20:03,619 --> 00:20:10,550 So anybody know? Yeah, That's hilarious. 562 00:20:10,550 --> 00:20:12,290 Who smoke because you're supposed to speak 563 00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:13,850 Shakespearean English like 564 00:20:13,850 --> 00:20:15,724 a proper Englishman. All right. 565 00:20:15,724 --> 00:20:18,334 Oh, but that's what exactly what he presumes. 566 00:20:18,334 --> 00:20:20,209 It presumed superiority 567 00:20:20,209 --> 00:20:21,440 of something even if that 568 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,749 something is artificially constructed 569 00:20:23,749 --> 00:20:25,070 as the proper version. 570 00:20:25,070 --> 00:20:26,600 So, and that just draws 571 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,464 attention to that it's 572 00:20:29,464 --> 00:20:31,790 arbitrary and based on 573 00:20:31,790 --> 00:20:33,019 class and who's in 574 00:20:33,019 --> 00:20:34,534 power and all that kind of stuff. 575 00:20:34,534 --> 00:20:35,624 Yeah. 576 00:20:35,624 --> 00:20:37,280 My situation, it was 577 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:38,960 always why don't you 578 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,119 sound like you're from Excel. 579 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:43,565 So that's, that's where that, 580 00:20:43,565 --> 00:20:46,190 that association for me comes from. 581 00:20:46,190 --> 00:20:47,960 The perception that I lost 582 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,370 an accent because that's 583 00:20:49,370 --> 00:20:50,704 what people point out to me, 584 00:20:50,704 --> 00:20:52,699 is that at some point you must have 585 00:20:52,699 --> 00:20:55,189 sounded different and now you sound this way. 586 00:20:55,189 --> 00:20:56,750 So at what point did 587 00:20:56,750 --> 00:20:59,490 that did that shift happen? 588 00:20:59,770 --> 00:21:02,300 And is that is that because 589 00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:03,589 there is a sort of 590 00:21:03,589 --> 00:21:06,859 professional layer in the South that is, 591 00:21:06,859 --> 00:21:09,215 speaks a very different accent. 592 00:21:09,215 --> 00:21:10,954 In other words, why? 593 00:21:10,954 --> 00:21:12,229 When people say that it's 594 00:21:12,229 --> 00:21:14,029 because you don't speak like a person of 595 00:21:14,029 --> 00:21:17,750 a certain class relationship in the South. 596 00:21:17,750 --> 00:21:19,580 You speak the way you speak, 597 00:21:19,580 --> 00:21:20,809 the way you speak in the way people 598 00:21:20,809 --> 00:21:23,089 around you spoke in Tennessee. 599 00:21:23,089 --> 00:21:25,744 And yet you don't speak like Dolly Parton? 600 00:21:25,744 --> 00:21:30,319 I don't, but I also don't I 601 00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:32,150 don't I don't seem to 602 00:21:32,150 --> 00:21:33,409 speak the way that other 603 00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:34,819 people around me spoke. 604 00:21:34,819 --> 00:21:36,710 So my brother and I 605 00:21:36,710 --> 00:21:40,624 were raised together but are 12 years apart. 606 00:21:40,624 --> 00:21:41,600 But we were still 607 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:42,799 raised in the same household, 608 00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:43,879 are on the same family. 609 00:21:43,879 --> 00:21:48,155 And he has what I would consider a much, 610 00:21:48,155 --> 00:21:51,050 much thicker accent, 611 00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:52,640 accent that people think of when 612 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,800 they often think of southern accent. 613 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,270 But he, he went through 614 00:21:56,270 --> 00:21:58,100 an active process of trying 615 00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:02,449 to lose its accent. A few years ago. 616 00:22:02,449 --> 00:22:04,729 I told him to embrace it because one day a 617 00:22:04,729 --> 00:22:07,355 girl we'll really liked the way he sounds. 618 00:22:07,355 --> 00:22:09,949 Mostly you. What do you say? 619 00:22:09,949 --> 00:22:11,420 I love, I love that. 620 00:22:11,420 --> 00:22:12,769 And I was also just thinking 621 00:22:12,769 --> 00:22:15,229 about several things. 622 00:22:15,229 --> 00:22:16,250 I mean, I guess one of them, 623 00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:17,000 one of the things I think 624 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,829 if there's not just one southern accent 625 00:22:18,829 --> 00:22:19,940 and I think like 626 00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:21,320 they're just like there's 627 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,910 not just one Midwestern accent. 628 00:22:22,910 --> 00:22:26,104 I'm sure that when I come to 10 Na, 629 00:22:26,104 --> 00:22:27,650 Yao students are going to sound 630 00:22:27,650 --> 00:22:29,674 different than my students here in Wisconsin. 631 00:22:29,674 --> 00:22:31,130 I think there can be a very 632 00:22:31,130 --> 00:22:33,560 strong eastern Wisconsin accent 633 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,494 that I really like a lot. 634 00:22:35,494 --> 00:22:37,759 And so I like kind of going places and 635 00:22:37,759 --> 00:22:40,235 hearing the different, The differences. 636 00:22:40,235 --> 00:22:43,220 And I think also 637 00:22:43,220 --> 00:22:44,059 it's interesting to 638 00:22:44,059 --> 00:22:45,350 think about the expectations. 639 00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:46,820 People have Brick Bay 640 00:22:46,820 --> 00:22:48,230 here where you're from and they're like, 641 00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:51,035 okay, well, then I'm expecting something. 642 00:22:51,035 --> 00:22:52,414 Why are you not 643 00:22:52,414 --> 00:22:54,289 fitting the thing that I want? 644 00:22:54,289 --> 00:22:56,209 So that's interesting to me too, 645 00:22:56,209 --> 00:22:58,520 is just like do we have these kinda like 646 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,610 regional desires for a certain kind 647 00:23:01,610 --> 00:23:03,960 of sound out of them. 648 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,350 Well, in the question that I wrote down 649 00:23:06,350 --> 00:23:08,660 from little quote from Michael Schmid, 650 00:23:08,660 --> 00:23:11,644 lives of a poet's, you know, 651 00:23:11,644 --> 00:23:13,220 to what extent is 652 00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:15,499 language something we're born 653 00:23:15,499 --> 00:23:17,179 to that's imposed and to 654 00:23:17,179 --> 00:23:20,105 what extent is it given to us? 655 00:23:20,105 --> 00:23:23,030 And to what extent do we choose it? 656 00:23:23,030 --> 00:23:25,535 He says First or gener generate 657 00:23:25,535 --> 00:23:27,020 first or second generation 658 00:23:27,020 --> 00:23:28,129 colonial experience, 659 00:23:28,129 --> 00:23:31,100 Let's say languages impose. 660 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,334 Then he says people get a hold of it all, 661 00:23:33,334 --> 00:23:34,639 alter it, infiltrate it and 662 00:23:34,639 --> 00:23:36,619 make spaces in it and possess it. 663 00:23:36,619 --> 00:23:38,360 So maybe talk a little bit about 664 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:40,250 that experience. 665 00:23:40,250 --> 00:23:42,920 Or you you feel 666 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,990 like for me yeah. Yeah. For you. 667 00:23:48,370 --> 00:23:51,409 Well, I'm trying to think. So. There are 668 00:23:51,409 --> 00:23:52,489 so many different little pieces 669 00:23:52,489 --> 00:23:53,630 of your quotations there. 670 00:23:53,630 --> 00:23:55,369 If I don't address all of it, 671 00:23:55,369 --> 00:23:57,690 Just remind me of some darker. 672 00:23:58,060 --> 00:24:01,999 I just feel like this, 673 00:24:01,999 --> 00:24:05,569 this kind of Appalachian Twain feels very 674 00:24:05,569 --> 00:24:09,424 much like something always given in that I, 675 00:24:09,424 --> 00:24:10,820 that I wanted to keep, but also 676 00:24:10,820 --> 00:24:12,380 something that I want to preserve. 677 00:24:12,380 --> 00:24:14,570 And then that's why I wrote 678 00:24:14,570 --> 00:24:16,714 the pawns in here that are about 679 00:24:16,714 --> 00:24:18,409 the different slang phrases because 680 00:24:18,409 --> 00:24:21,350 I can hear them dying out, 681 00:24:21,350 --> 00:24:23,180 you know, as language 682 00:24:23,180 --> 00:24:24,514 gets more and more standardized, 683 00:24:24,514 --> 00:24:25,610 I think just because of 684 00:24:25,610 --> 00:24:26,719 everyone's exposure or light to 685 00:24:26,719 --> 00:24:28,220 the internet thing that I don't know. 686 00:24:28,220 --> 00:24:29,869 That's just my old crusty thought. 687 00:24:29,869 --> 00:24:31,800 I don't know if that's actually true. 688 00:24:31,930 --> 00:24:33,740 But I also think 689 00:24:33,740 --> 00:24:35,120 it's something I've been given, 690 00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,190 but it's also something I want to preserve, 691 00:24:37,190 --> 00:24:38,900 but also something out went to investigate. 692 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:40,174 So, and that's for, 693 00:24:40,174 --> 00:24:41,375 this is for all language. 694 00:24:41,375 --> 00:24:43,175 So I just really like, 695 00:24:43,175 --> 00:24:45,830 like the sounds and textures of words, 696 00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:47,959 which is why I like to rhyme so much. 697 00:24:47,959 --> 00:24:52,279 And so I think that I'm often kind of looking 698 00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:54,199 up etymologies of things and trying 699 00:24:54,199 --> 00:24:56,600 to make metaphors from things like that. 700 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,419 So it's all very language 701 00:24:59,419 --> 00:25:00,799 is very alive for me. 702 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:01,520 And so that's not 703 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,749 just the language I was born, 704 00:25:02,749 --> 00:25:04,820 Cubans, just language in general. 705 00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:07,099 The only kind of language I don't like 706 00:25:07,099 --> 00:25:10,040 our bureaucratic speak and 707 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,815 cliches from the Internet. 708 00:25:12,815 --> 00:25:16,669 Apparently, I'm a real person that I had. 709 00:25:16,669 --> 00:25:18,620 That's just me. And that's 710 00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:19,729 just me 711 00:25:19,729 --> 00:25:21,340 responding to some of what I remembered. 712 00:25:21,340 --> 00:25:22,790 This quotation said, that if there's 713 00:25:22,790 --> 00:25:23,434 something else, 714 00:25:23,434 --> 00:25:24,365 you should tell me what it is. 715 00:25:24,365 --> 00:25:25,340 I'll try again. 716 00:25:25,340 --> 00:25:27,874 Well, do you feel like you've made it 717 00:25:27,874 --> 00:25:29,089 sounds like exactly 718 00:25:29,089 --> 00:25:30,320 what you're talking about. 719 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,579 I don't wanna take up too much space here, 720 00:25:31,579 --> 00:25:34,084 but I will say that I teach a lot of, 721 00:25:34,084 --> 00:25:37,175 a lot of poets who exists between 722 00:25:37,175 --> 00:25:39,184 sort of standard English 723 00:25:39,184 --> 00:25:41,390 and the English that is actually home. 724 00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:41,959 But there's also 725 00:25:41,959 --> 00:25:44,164 politicized like Seamus Heaney. 726 00:25:44,164 --> 00:25:48,200 We're edwin Morgan, the Scottish poet for 727 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,800 whom a political action is a political event, 728 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,859 not just a, of course in Northern Ireland. 729 00:25:54,859 --> 00:25:56,749 It's not just that 730 00:25:56,749 --> 00:25:58,519 you've got received standard English, 731 00:25:58,519 --> 00:25:59,749 then you've got Irish English, 732 00:25:59,749 --> 00:26:03,230 then you've got Scottish English, right? 733 00:26:03,230 --> 00:26:05,224 That, and those tha, 734 00:26:05,224 --> 00:26:07,790 tha, that's all at war with each other. 735 00:26:07,790 --> 00:26:09,919 So there's all kinds of fraud tennis to it. 736 00:26:09,919 --> 00:26:12,320 But, but then he chooses it as 737 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,440 an instrument and makes his own place in it. 738 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,729 And I kinda feel like with 739 00:26:16,729 --> 00:26:18,514 your poems, you're doing that. 740 00:26:18,514 --> 00:26:19,640 You're saying not only am I 741 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,599 unabashedly speaking Appalachian English, 742 00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:25,429 but I'm going to do something with it. 743 00:26:25,429 --> 00:26:26,614 That's my end. 744 00:26:26,614 --> 00:26:28,039 Yeah. That's right. 745 00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:28,670 Yeah. 746 00:26:28,670 --> 00:26:30,230 Do you think that that takes 747 00:26:30,230 --> 00:26:32,390 a certain degree of I mean, 748 00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:35,074 I obviously requires a certain degree of. 749 00:26:35,074 --> 00:26:36,680 Class awareness 750 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,260 to bike, you have to be aware. 751 00:26:39,260 --> 00:26:40,699 I mean, there must be 752 00:26:40,699 --> 00:26:42,109 a difference between sort 753 00:26:42,109 --> 00:26:45,409 of having the awareness to sort of 754 00:26:45,409 --> 00:26:47,839 own your dialect versus sort of 755 00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:50,840 passively carrying it on, right? 756 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,219 Is there a difference? Do you think, like, 757 00:26:53,219 --> 00:26:56,210 for instance, you know, 758 00:26:56,210 --> 00:26:57,620 deliberately choosing that I'm 759 00:26:57,620 --> 00:26:59,179 not going to like it. 760 00:26:59,179 --> 00:27:00,500 You mentioned April story deliberately 761 00:27:00,500 --> 00:27:03,439 choosing not to lose 762 00:27:03,439 --> 00:27:05,059 something or deliberately choosing not 763 00:27:05,059 --> 00:27:08,509 to pass as something else. 764 00:27:08,509 --> 00:27:10,879 There's a certain degree of power and 765 00:27:10,879 --> 00:27:13,235 class awareness and that too, isn't there. 766 00:27:13,235 --> 00:27:15,619 Yes. And this makes me think of, 767 00:27:15,619 --> 00:27:17,194 like Brooke said earlier, 768 00:27:17,194 --> 00:27:19,309 you know, I may not get it exactly right, 769 00:27:19,309 --> 00:27:22,040 but the idea of vernacular or dialect, 770 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,495 It's something that's there or 771 00:27:23,495 --> 00:27:25,624 the result of education. 772 00:27:25,624 --> 00:27:27,469 So me not really 773 00:27:27,469 --> 00:27:29,225 understanding that I spoke and what 774 00:27:29,225 --> 00:27:31,220 people would call dialect until I had 775 00:27:31,220 --> 00:27:32,689 enough education to hear 776 00:27:32,689 --> 00:27:34,535 from people that that's what I was doing. 777 00:27:34,535 --> 00:27:36,410 And then there, then there's the resistance 778 00:27:36,410 --> 00:27:38,569 of okay, well, great. 779 00:27:38,569 --> 00:27:40,159 And now I know that this is 780 00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:42,995 mine and I see how 781 00:27:42,995 --> 00:27:44,269 maybe I'll try to squish 782 00:27:44,269 --> 00:27:45,710 this a little bit so I'm going to push 783 00:27:45,710 --> 00:27:49,199 back against that. Yeah, definitely. 784 00:27:49,630 --> 00:27:51,589 It's thinking even just in 785 00:27:51,589 --> 00:27:52,819 terms of the history of the language. 786 00:27:52,819 --> 00:27:53,989 One of the things I always do with 787 00:27:53,989 --> 00:27:55,940 the class and show students, 788 00:27:55,940 --> 00:27:57,439 you know, a range of 789 00:27:57,439 --> 00:27:59,690 synonyms that have different origins. 790 00:27:59,690 --> 00:28:01,699 And we mentioned, you mentioned something 791 00:28:01,699 --> 00:28:03,770 that's colonized or imposed or gem, right? 792 00:28:03,770 --> 00:28:06,170 In that quote, I think that I always show 793 00:28:06,170 --> 00:28:07,370 them a list of words 794 00:28:07,370 --> 00:28:09,050 like guts versus courage. 795 00:28:09,050 --> 00:28:13,054 You're, you know, simple things like, 796 00:28:13,054 --> 00:28:15,799 what do we call a steak? You call it before. 797 00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:19,249 Do you call it cow or is it 798 00:28:19,249 --> 00:28:20,990 mutton or is it 799 00:28:20,990 --> 00:28:23,150 cheaper or something like that? 800 00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:24,830 And it becomes clear 801 00:28:24,830 --> 00:28:27,004 the ways in which you kind of, 802 00:28:27,004 --> 00:28:28,819 I mean, that was pre 803 00:28:28,819 --> 00:28:30,679 Norman conquest, post Norman conquest. 804 00:28:30,679 --> 00:28:35,029 So whether you had the language 805 00:28:35,029 --> 00:28:36,350 from a viewer speaking for language 806 00:28:36,350 --> 00:28:37,519 from a position of power, 807 00:28:37,519 --> 00:28:39,579 from a Position and 808 00:28:39,579 --> 00:28:41,470 subjugation I think is 809 00:28:41,470 --> 00:28:42,924 kind of coded and all of that stuff. 810 00:28:42,924 --> 00:28:46,730 So yeah. 811 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:51,129 Yeah, I am I do I teach, 812 00:28:51,129 --> 00:28:52,749 I give them little videos on 813 00:28:52,749 --> 00:28:53,829 the history of the English language 814 00:28:53,829 --> 00:28:55,194 just so they know there's a, there's a, 815 00:28:55,194 --> 00:28:57,069 there's a reason why some words 816 00:28:57,069 --> 00:29:00,190 have powerful heart associations. 817 00:29:00,190 --> 00:29:01,869 That's the Anglo-Saxon right? 818 00:29:01,869 --> 00:29:04,555 And the head associations, that's the Latin. 819 00:29:04,555 --> 00:29:06,879 And you have those registers. 820 00:29:06,879 --> 00:29:08,499 Well, even having a hard 821 00:29:08,499 --> 00:29:10,104 associations are usually friendship. 822 00:29:10,104 --> 00:29:14,905 It's like it's lower or with a vowel. 823 00:29:14,905 --> 00:29:16,165 Yeah. 824 00:29:16,165 --> 00:29:18,759 Yeah, that's true. That's true. 825 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:23,060 Yeah. Yeah, I mean in yellow, 826 00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:24,140 a lot of the words 827 00:29:24,140 --> 00:29:26,044 we're, we're class oriented. 828 00:29:26,044 --> 00:29:26,929 And the other thing that 829 00:29:26,929 --> 00:29:27,889 I think is interesting, 830 00:29:27,889 --> 00:29:30,904 but I think probably accelerates 831 00:29:30,904 --> 00:29:35,435 our assimilation to something in the middle. 832 00:29:35,435 --> 00:29:37,999 And you mentioned technology doing that. 833 00:29:37,999 --> 00:29:39,799 Before that the, the, you know, 834 00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:41,480 the Internet is maybe forcing 835 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,294 is all toward the mean or something. 836 00:29:43,294 --> 00:29:45,740 And you think about, 837 00:29:45,740 --> 00:29:47,180 we go back far enough 838 00:29:47,180 --> 00:29:49,775 and before stand standardized spelling, 839 00:29:49,775 --> 00:29:51,379 you know, the difference 840 00:29:51,379 --> 00:29:52,884 between being in power disorder, 841 00:29:52,884 --> 00:29:54,485 spell in dialect, 842 00:29:54,485 --> 00:29:56,855 as well as speak in dialect. 843 00:29:56,855 --> 00:29:59,989 Do do you ever I mean, 844 00:29:59,989 --> 00:30:01,084 you kinda do that with hit. 845 00:30:01,084 --> 00:30:02,554 I mean, is that something that you 846 00:30:02,554 --> 00:30:04,880 consciously do is try to think about how 847 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:06,830 to render the sound 848 00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:10,774 of dialect into graphemes, 849 00:30:10,774 --> 00:30:12,259 into like letters, into 850 00:30:12,259 --> 00:30:14,750 sounds that you can represent on a page. 851 00:30:14,750 --> 00:30:16,579 You know, I feel like I 852 00:30:16,579 --> 00:30:18,740 did it more when I was younger. 853 00:30:18,740 --> 00:30:21,049 And that is something that I have. 854 00:30:21,049 --> 00:30:22,790 I think teacher is really kind 855 00:30:22,790 --> 00:30:25,324 of push against me in that way. 856 00:30:25,324 --> 00:30:27,979 So this was when I was in my MFA and I was 857 00:30:27,979 --> 00:30:31,055 writing these poems that were in dialect. 858 00:30:31,055 --> 00:30:32,804 And they weren't, they weren't. 859 00:30:32,804 --> 00:30:34,760 I like, like, like I 860 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,950 only think like late 19th century, 861 00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:38,690 like Charles just not 862 00:30:38,690 --> 00:30:41,135 we'd like tons and tons of spelling. 863 00:30:41,135 --> 00:30:42,620 It's where you're like, Whoa, 864 00:30:42,620 --> 00:30:44,030 okay, I gotta get him here. 865 00:30:44,030 --> 00:30:46,969 You know, it wasn't quite like that, 866 00:30:46,969 --> 00:30:48,709 but I remember one of my teacher saying, 867 00:30:48,709 --> 00:30:51,739 you don't need to leave the g off the end of 868 00:30:51,739 --> 00:30:53,960 these words because we're 869 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:55,099 just going to figure that out. 870 00:30:55,099 --> 00:30:55,954 That's just something you 871 00:30:55,954 --> 00:30:56,570 have to worry about. 872 00:30:56,570 --> 00:30:58,520 And I was like, Okay, but I 873 00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,569 feel like I was really 874 00:30:59,569 --> 00:31:00,680 getting some push back then. 875 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,330 This was in the late nineties there. 876 00:31:02,330 --> 00:31:04,085 I don't know what I would get today. 877 00:31:04,085 --> 00:31:07,639 And I think back then, and I, 878 00:31:07,639 --> 00:31:08,899 some of my teachers were really 879 00:31:08,899 --> 00:31:10,339 concerned that if I kept writing all 880 00:31:10,339 --> 00:31:11,660 these Appalachia and poems 881 00:31:11,660 --> 00:31:12,439 and I wrote them in 882 00:31:12,439 --> 00:31:13,579 dialect that I was going to 883 00:31:13,579 --> 00:31:14,930 be a regional writer. 884 00:31:14,930 --> 00:31:16,069 And I don't even know if people 885 00:31:16,069 --> 00:31:17,494 think that way anymore. 886 00:31:17,494 --> 00:31:19,984 They might be so, but, 887 00:31:19,984 --> 00:31:21,199 but I wasn't 888 00:31:21,199 --> 00:31:22,459 the only thing I wanted to write about. 889 00:31:22,459 --> 00:31:23,540 So I think, I think in 890 00:31:23,540 --> 00:31:25,280 some ways I kind of was like, 891 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:25,984 okay, well, I don't 892 00:31:25,984 --> 00:31:26,989 really know how to do this 893 00:31:26,989 --> 00:31:27,709 and I don't know what I 894 00:31:27,709 --> 00:31:28,700 should do about the spellings. 895 00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:29,479 I'm just going to push it 896 00:31:29,479 --> 00:31:30,559 over here for a while. 897 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:33,590 And then when I came back to it over 898 00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:35,180 a decade later and 899 00:31:35,180 --> 00:31:37,025 started working on this book. 900 00:31:37,025 --> 00:31:39,410 I think I did have more confidence, 901 00:31:39,410 --> 00:31:42,830 but then I also realized that really the 902 00:31:42,830 --> 00:31:45,755 idiom probably going to be 903 00:31:45,755 --> 00:31:49,145 enough for people to get the flavor at, 904 00:31:49,145 --> 00:31:50,210 you know, and, and I guess that is 905 00:31:50,210 --> 00:31:52,265 11 thing about, 906 00:31:52,265 --> 00:31:53,659 you know, you are able 907 00:31:53,659 --> 00:31:55,760 to have the poet come and read. 908 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,270 Then they would hear all the rest of it. 909 00:31:59,270 --> 00:32:02,465 That's a good question. You know, I mean, 910 00:32:02,465 --> 00:32:05,119 because I wonder what would happen if 911 00:32:05,119 --> 00:32:07,339 I had decided to really 912 00:32:07,339 --> 00:32:09,949 just try to phonetically represent what 913 00:32:09,949 --> 00:32:11,209 everything sounds like in 914 00:32:11,209 --> 00:32:12,739 some of these Appalachian poems, 915 00:32:12,739 --> 00:32:13,939 it'd be interesting to try. 916 00:32:13,939 --> 00:32:14,900 I think it would take me a long 917 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:16,115 time to figure that out. 918 00:32:16,115 --> 00:32:16,699 Yeah. 919 00:32:16,699 --> 00:32:18,080 Because Yeah, go ahead. 920 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,165 Could I mean, you look at the history. 921 00:32:20,165 --> 00:32:21,440 The history there is fascinating 922 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,119 because we've had much more. 923 00:32:24,220 --> 00:32:29,719 Now we prescriptive grammarian approach 924 00:32:29,719 --> 00:32:31,070 or the prescriptive language. 925 00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:32,779 A prescriptive language approach 926 00:32:32,779 --> 00:32:34,790 has been much more 927 00:32:34,790 --> 00:32:37,910 effective to rein in 928 00:32:37,910 --> 00:32:40,774 spelling that it has sound, right? 929 00:32:40,774 --> 00:32:44,809 Whereas in a pre-modern, pre, early modern, 930 00:32:44,809 --> 00:32:47,899 you had, the spelling is the only way we know 931 00:32:47,899 --> 00:32:50,720 what things sounded like before 1500. 932 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,520 So you relied on 933 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:56,230 spelling as an indicator of sound. 934 00:32:56,230 --> 00:32:57,789 Whereas now spelling and sound 935 00:32:57,789 --> 00:33:00,519 are fairly well divorced at this point, 936 00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:04,135 you know, and that's an understatement. 937 00:33:04,135 --> 00:33:04,570 Yeah. 938 00:33:04,570 --> 00:33:05,530 I believe that failure well, 939 00:33:05,530 --> 00:33:06,759 divorce that he misses almost 940 00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:07,090 like there's 941 00:33:07,090 --> 00:33:09,025 no correspondence whatsoever sometimes. 942 00:33:09,025 --> 00:33:10,630 Yeah. I always I always tell 943 00:33:10,630 --> 00:33:12,025 students to 92 944 00:33:12,025 --> 00:33:13,059 or in history in English language, 945 00:33:13,059 --> 00:33:15,670 I say that spelling and sound had 946 00:33:15,670 --> 00:33:18,064 a nasty divorce in the 18th century. 947 00:33:18,064 --> 00:33:20,065 Look back sense. 948 00:33:20,065 --> 00:33:22,060 So do you think, 949 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:23,305 do you think will soon be like, 950 00:33:23,305 --> 00:33:24,999 like Chinese where there's 951 00:33:24,999 --> 00:33:26,380 like almost 952 00:33:26,380 --> 00:33:28,749 no connection between the character. 953 00:33:28,749 --> 00:33:30,759 Like you can read, you can read it, 954 00:33:30,759 --> 00:33:33,444 but it's a completely different I mean, 955 00:33:33,444 --> 00:33:35,409 that's my understanding of trying to use it. 956 00:33:35,409 --> 00:33:40,569 The written aspect is standardized, but yes, 957 00:33:40,569 --> 00:33:42,429 Now does not connected at all 958 00:33:42,429 --> 00:33:44,110 to the two main languages, 959 00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:45,744 Cantonese and Mandarin. 960 00:33:45,744 --> 00:33:47,020 I mean basically on, 961 00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:48,489 on this you learn them both. 962 00:33:48,489 --> 00:33:48,880 I mean, 963 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:50,380 somebody who's a Mandarin speaker really 964 00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:52,614 can't understand a Cantonese speaker, 965 00:33:52,614 --> 00:33:53,649 but the written version of 966 00:33:53,649 --> 00:33:54,759 both languages exact same. 967 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:55,959 So I have the right yada, 968 00:33:55,959 --> 00:33:57,609 they can understand it. 969 00:33:57,609 --> 00:33:59,739 I don't know if 970 00:33:59,739 --> 00:34:02,049 it's is it possible that we reach that point? 971 00:34:02,049 --> 00:34:03,025 I don't know. 972 00:34:03,025 --> 00:34:04,569 That's why I think it's I 973 00:34:04,569 --> 00:34:06,414 think it's the opposite. I think. 974 00:34:06,414 --> 00:34:08,050 Was Ted mentioned that the internet 975 00:34:08,050 --> 00:34:09,250 is going to sort of force us 976 00:34:09,250 --> 00:34:13,405 to wherever this sort of power dynamics are. 977 00:34:13,405 --> 00:34:15,010 Eventually, the more exposure 978 00:34:15,010 --> 00:34:16,120 you have to know that stuff, 979 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,949 the more you're going to assimilate to that. 980 00:34:17,949 --> 00:34:22,599 You see that in a lot of different places. 981 00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:24,070 I feel like, you know, assimilation 982 00:34:24,070 --> 00:34:25,239 to whatever is on, 983 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:26,530 whatever is available on 984 00:34:26,530 --> 00:34:28,450 social medias becomes 985 00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:29,589 this sort of dominant dialogue. 986 00:34:29,589 --> 00:34:33,939 So why don't we have Melissa read? 987 00:34:33,939 --> 00:34:35,409 And I thought maybe flat as 988 00:34:35,409 --> 00:34:37,314 a flutter because that's Ugarit. 989 00:34:37,314 --> 00:34:38,454 Yeah. 990 00:34:38,454 --> 00:34:41,979 Let me find it. With one litre 991 00:34:41,979 --> 00:34:44,209 of lattice a litter. 992 00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:47,680 Yeah, and I should 993 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,330 tell the students out there that 994 00:34:49,330 --> 00:34:50,530 there's a cuss word in this 995 00:34:50,530 --> 00:34:51,550 poem because my grandma 996 00:34:51,550 --> 00:34:54,459 HKUST actually both my grandma's coast. 997 00:34:54,459 --> 00:34:57,639 And so this is based 998 00:34:57,639 --> 00:35:00,250 on raised that my grandmother 999 00:35:00,250 --> 00:35:02,229 used to say flatters the flutter. 1000 00:35:02,229 --> 00:35:05,679 And I, at some point asked her What 1001 00:35:05,679 --> 00:35:07,389 if litter was in this poem is 1002 00:35:07,389 --> 00:35:10,249 basically what her response? 1003 00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:13,399 What is a flutter? 1004 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,820 The way you can crush a bug or stomp drained, 1005 00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:21,819 can Schlitz out on the porch. 1006 00:35:21,819 --> 00:35:24,984 The bread when it won't rise, 1007 00:35:24,984 --> 00:35:26,500 the cake when it 1008 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:29,620 falls after the oven door slams. 1009 00:35:29,620 --> 00:35:31,734 The old people had their way 1010 00:35:31,734 --> 00:35:34,405 to describe such things. 1011 00:35:34,405 --> 00:35:36,804 But what's the flare? 1012 00:35:36,804 --> 00:35:40,029 I always ask my granny and she 1013 00:35:40,029 --> 00:35:43,455 could never say It's just a flutter. 1014 00:35:43,455 --> 00:35:46,680 Well, it might be a freighter. 1015 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,315 Then why not say fritter ship Melissa? 1016 00:35:51,315 --> 00:35:53,774 Because the old people said flutter. 1017 00:35:53,774 --> 00:35:56,219 And she smacked the fraud pi 1018 00:35:56,219 --> 00:35:57,314 into the skill it, 1019 00:35:57,314 --> 00:35:59,790 and banged the skill it on the stove and 1020 00:35:59,790 --> 00:36:01,170 shook and turn the PI 1021 00:36:01,170 --> 00:36:03,819 to live with on its way to Bert. 1022 00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:06,615 Ladder that a flutter 1023 00:36:06,615 --> 00:36:09,645 a mountain when it's tops blown off, 1024 00:36:09,645 --> 00:36:12,914 dynamited, shaved. Do this theme. 1025 00:36:12,914 --> 00:36:16,920 The spoil pushed into haulers, into streams. 1026 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,355 The arsenic slurry caged behind a dam, 1027 00:36:20,355 --> 00:36:23,979 teetering above an elementary school. 1028 00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:27,780 The old people said, Flutter. 1029 00:36:27,780 --> 00:36:30,194 They didn't live to see 1030 00:36:30,194 --> 00:36:33,225 God's own mountain turned hazard, 1031 00:36:33,225 --> 00:36:35,520 orange Mirror Pond, a 1032 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,490 haze of waste whose brightness rivals heaven. 1033 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:44,129 When I was a little bitty baby, my dad, 1034 00:36:44,129 --> 00:36:45,839 he'd robot into Virginia to 1035 00:36:45,839 --> 00:36:48,239 fix strip mining equipment, 1036 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,874 everything to him, 1037 00:36:49,874 --> 00:36:53,019 an innocent machine in need. 1038 00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:56,085 On God's own mountain. 1039 00:36:56,085 --> 00:36:59,220 Poor people drink bad water. 1040 00:36:59,220 --> 00:37:02,640 And the heart of the Lord is a theme of coal 1041 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,450 gouged out to fuel the light in other places. 1042 00:37:07,550 --> 00:37:11,009 The old people didn't live to give a name to 1043 00:37:11,009 --> 00:37:14,680 this kingdom of gravel and blast. 1044 00:37:14,810 --> 00:37:17,310 Lay me a hunk of coal on 1045 00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:18,870 MF littered tongue to mark 1046 00:37:18,870 --> 00:37:20,579 the mountains graves to 1047 00:37:20,579 --> 00:37:22,544 mark my father's tools, 1048 00:37:22,544 --> 00:37:25,604 quarrying bread for my baby plate. 1049 00:37:25,604 --> 00:37:28,259 To mark my granny flapping DO 1050 00:37:28,259 --> 00:37:32,200 as if with God's own flat hand. 1051 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:35,175 I love that pole. 1052 00:37:35,175 --> 00:37:37,090 Things. 1053 00:37:39,740 --> 00:37:42,045 I heard that too. 1054 00:37:42,045 --> 00:37:43,770 Growing up Flood is a footer 1055 00:37:43,770 --> 00:37:44,880 and i'm I might have 1056 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:45,090 had 1057 00:37:45,090 --> 00:37:47,744 the exact same conversation at some point. 1058 00:37:47,744 --> 00:37:49,260 What does what does a flutter 1059 00:37:49,260 --> 00:37:51,810 and experiencing 1060 00:37:51,810 --> 00:37:56,534 that frustration when you can't understand. 1061 00:37:56,534 --> 00:38:01,890 My question was, when referring to good for 1062 00:38:01,890 --> 00:38:04,979 nothing men the women of my family would 1063 00:38:04,979 --> 00:38:09,689 say he couldn't hit a wicked a snake? Yes. 1064 00:38:09,689 --> 00:38:11,760 And to this day, 1065 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,419 I don't understand how I mean, 1066 00:38:15,419 --> 00:38:17,040 I can make the leap, but what, 1067 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:18,840 what being good for nothing has to 1068 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,585 do with hitting looks that snakes. 1069 00:38:21,585 --> 00:38:24,659 But I really appreciate about poem 1070 00:38:24,659 --> 00:38:27,090 and the dialogue that you 1071 00:38:27,090 --> 00:38:31,379 enter into in why does the footer cricket 1072 00:38:31,379 --> 00:38:35,019 as a dog's hind leg and overload or Vermont, 1073 00:38:35,019 --> 00:38:37,490 I may, I may say that wrong. 1074 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:40,000 I loved the culture that 1075 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,529 you've dug into it with those palms, 1076 00:38:41,529 --> 00:38:41,919 using 1077 00:38:41,919 --> 00:38:43,839 those conversations with your grandmother 1078 00:38:43,839 --> 00:38:46,479 and and your sister. 1079 00:38:46,479 --> 00:38:51,549 And that's just it with idioms. 1080 00:38:51,549 --> 00:38:52,810 I mean, they, they, they are, 1081 00:38:52,810 --> 00:38:54,340 they are so culturally based. 1082 00:38:54,340 --> 00:38:56,740 Write as though, I mean, if, 1083 00:38:56,740 --> 00:38:58,060 even though you know exactly 1084 00:38:58,060 --> 00:38:59,290 what the words mean, I mean, 1085 00:38:59,290 --> 00:39:01,269 you don't always have 1086 00:39:01,269 --> 00:39:02,800 much of a chance of understanding it 1087 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,539 unless you've been hearing 1088 00:39:04,539 --> 00:39:08,439 it as in your formative years, so to say. 1089 00:39:08,439 --> 00:39:10,269 And then if you hear them later, 1090 00:39:10,269 --> 00:39:11,860 then you start thinking about 1091 00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:13,210 the actual meaning of the words and 1092 00:39:13,210 --> 00:39:15,265 the referential meaning of this 1093 00:39:15,265 --> 00:39:16,914 semantics of the whole thing 1094 00:39:16,914 --> 00:39:18,759 doesn't make any sense, right? 1095 00:39:18,759 --> 00:39:20,170 And that's kinda what happened to you, 1096 00:39:20,170 --> 00:39:22,060 but that's no different from when 1097 00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:24,069 you hear idioms in a, 1098 00:39:24,069 --> 00:39:25,570 in a, in a different language and 1099 00:39:25,570 --> 00:39:27,070 a second language. Same thing. 1100 00:39:27,070 --> 00:39:28,150 I mean, you might have 1101 00:39:28,150 --> 00:39:29,439 an idiom that means the same, 1102 00:39:29,439 --> 00:39:32,095 but I mean, the direct translation 1103 00:39:32,095 --> 00:39:34,059 has nothing to do with each other. 1104 00:39:34,059 --> 00:39:35,589 I mean, there's, there's many, 1105 00:39:35,589 --> 00:39:40,134 many examples of bad. 1106 00:39:40,134 --> 00:39:42,339 And I guess that's 1107 00:39:42,339 --> 00:39:43,734 neither here nor there air but, 1108 00:39:43,734 --> 00:39:44,979 but it's just one of 1109 00:39:44,979 --> 00:39:47,455 those things where it's again, 1110 00:39:47,455 --> 00:39:49,539 the culture that seemed to 1111 00:39:49,539 --> 00:39:52,089 determine that rather than, 1112 00:39:52,089 --> 00:39:54,550 rather than the language itself, 1113 00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:56,875 what was the weirdest English idiom 1114 00:39:56,875 --> 00:39:58,690 or American idiom when you came here. 1115 00:39:58,690 --> 00:40:00,535 Oh, that's an easy one. 1116 00:40:00,535 --> 00:40:01,870 I have the answer to that. 1117 00:40:01,870 --> 00:40:03,279 I don't even have to think about that. 1118 00:40:03,279 --> 00:40:05,020 Well, the weirdest modest, 1119 00:40:05,020 --> 00:40:07,870 you cannot have your cake and eat it too. 1120 00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:11,290 And it makes absolutely no sense. 1121 00:40:11,290 --> 00:40:13,450 Oh sure, it does make sense. 1122 00:40:13,450 --> 00:40:17,470 And it makes absolutely no sense. 1123 00:40:17,470 --> 00:40:20,994 Because once I have it on, 1124 00:40:20,994 --> 00:40:23,574 unless I can eat it, That's my head. 1125 00:40:23,574 --> 00:40:25,360 What's the point of having the cake? 1126 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,840 I'm going to kick in and look at it. 1127 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,019 Doesn't mean no good if 1128 00:40:29,019 --> 00:40:30,310 I could just sit and look at it. 1129 00:40:30,310 --> 00:40:32,454 It doesn't look good if I can eat it. 1130 00:40:32,454 --> 00:40:34,959 So I candidate, so I can't 1131 00:40:34,959 --> 00:40:37,555 have my cake and eat it too. 1132 00:40:37,555 --> 00:40:38,349 Great. 1133 00:40:38,349 --> 00:40:40,930 In terms of the meaning that 1134 00:40:40,930 --> 00:40:42,190 that idiom supposed to carry 1135 00:40:42,190 --> 00:40:43,374 it makes no sense to me. 1136 00:40:43,374 --> 00:40:45,384 None whatsoever. 1137 00:40:45,384 --> 00:40:46,975 Like that one actually, 1138 00:40:46,975 --> 00:40:48,835 because basically what I mean. 1139 00:40:48,835 --> 00:40:50,019 Okay. How do how 1140 00:40:50,019 --> 00:40:51,220 do we explain the meaning of it? 1141 00:40:51,220 --> 00:40:52,030 What's the best way of 1142 00:40:52,030 --> 00:40:53,725 explaining the meaning of it? 1143 00:40:53,725 --> 00:40:56,724 Well, once he needed it's gone. 1144 00:40:56,724 --> 00:40:59,919 Yes. So so basically 1145 00:40:59,919 --> 00:41:03,325 it's it's you can't have it both ways. 1146 00:41:03,325 --> 00:41:05,649 Is that the same meaning? Or you 1147 00:41:05,649 --> 00:41:08,244 can do both those things, right? 1148 00:41:08,244 --> 00:41:09,895 Right. Right. 1149 00:41:09,895 --> 00:41:11,469 That's the meaning of it. But I 1150 00:41:11,469 --> 00:41:13,195 don't even want I mean, 1151 00:41:13,195 --> 00:41:15,130 I don't there's no reason 1152 00:41:15,130 --> 00:41:16,674 for me to do both things because I only, 1153 00:41:16,674 --> 00:41:18,984 can I be an aesthetic visual object 1154 00:41:18,984 --> 00:41:21,370 for, you know, absolutely. 1155 00:41:21,370 --> 00:41:22,479 Right? 1156 00:41:22,479 --> 00:41:24,909 So there is an idiom 1157 00:41:24,909 --> 00:41:26,604 that means the exact same thing. 1158 00:41:26,604 --> 00:41:27,954 Tell boy, here we go. 1159 00:41:27,954 --> 00:41:29,199 What is it missing? 1160 00:41:29,199 --> 00:41:32,185 Only Hager both push that. Emily Martin. 1161 00:41:32,185 --> 00:41:34,015 What does that translate to them? 1162 00:41:34,015 --> 00:41:35,575 That translate to you can 1163 00:41:35,575 --> 00:41:38,239 both blow and have flowering of mouth. 1164 00:41:41,070 --> 00:41:47,559 I like to think graphically, just try. 1165 00:41:47,559 --> 00:41:49,639 It's impossible to do. 1166 00:41:51,780 --> 00:41:54,684 And I don't want to do either. 1167 00:41:54,684 --> 00:41:56,589 You can't have your cake. 1168 00:41:56,589 --> 00:42:00,025 I want the footer. 1169 00:42:00,025 --> 00:42:01,300 You can. Like I said, 1170 00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:02,169 it's all culture, right? 1171 00:42:02,169 --> 00:42:04,345 It's all but I'll show you here, 1172 00:42:04,345 --> 00:42:06,234 starts making sense to you. 1173 00:42:06,234 --> 00:42:07,599 And if you don't hear it, 1174 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:10,389 and then it doesn't 1175 00:42:10,389 --> 00:42:12,519 make sense once you get exposed to it. 1176 00:42:12,519 --> 00:42:15,160 Especially not if it's if it's if 1177 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,055 the logic in it to us has gone. 1178 00:42:18,055 --> 00:42:19,269 Sure. 1179 00:42:19,269 --> 00:42:21,114 Well, in this I suspect to 1180 00:42:21,114 --> 00:42:23,035 the notion that language is 1181 00:42:23,035 --> 00:42:25,720 a group possessions language happens between 1182 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:30,115 people and the define subgroups, right? 1183 00:42:30,115 --> 00:42:32,200 And it's interesting that 1184 00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:33,610 you make me think of, 1185 00:42:33,610 --> 00:42:37,404 I don't know, most of you know Diane Seuss's. 1186 00:42:37,404 --> 00:42:41,410 We just finished her book, Frank sonnets. 1187 00:42:41,410 --> 00:42:43,119 And that book and read that yet, 1188 00:42:43,119 --> 00:42:44,619 but I've heard everyone loves it. 1189 00:42:44,619 --> 00:42:45,399 I gotta read it. 1190 00:42:45,399 --> 00:42:47,334 I got three amazing, it's an amazing book. 1191 00:42:47,334 --> 00:42:49,389 And it begins in a way with 1192 00:42:49,389 --> 00:42:50,829 an idiomatic expression that 1193 00:42:50,829 --> 00:42:52,164 her mother used to say. 1194 00:42:52,164 --> 00:42:54,864 And that expression, She's from, 1195 00:42:54,864 --> 00:42:58,794 from Southwest Michigan, 1196 00:42:58,794 --> 00:42:59,890 which is where I'm from. 1197 00:42:59,890 --> 00:43:02,965 So and my students, interestingly enough, 1198 00:43:02,965 --> 00:43:04,629 one of the things my students liked about 1199 00:43:04,629 --> 00:43:05,235 the book was that 1200 00:43:05,235 --> 00:43:07,269 they understood the dialect, 1201 00:43:07,269 --> 00:43:09,355 that some of the same kind of 1202 00:43:09,355 --> 00:43:11,439 ways of being in language. 1203 00:43:11,439 --> 00:43:13,090 They, they kinda got that. 1204 00:43:13,090 --> 00:43:15,369 And, but the expression was wishing, 1205 00:43:15,369 --> 00:43:16,870 want a wish in one hand 1206 00:43:16,870 --> 00:43:18,835 and shit in the other. 1207 00:43:18,835 --> 00:43:21,129 That was her mother's expression. 1208 00:43:21,129 --> 00:43:23,290 And it kind of defines the, 1209 00:43:23,290 --> 00:43:26,319 sort of the philosophy in a way are 1210 00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:29,215 the philosophical positioning of these, 1211 00:43:29,215 --> 00:43:31,300 of these poems in yeah, 1212 00:43:31,300 --> 00:43:32,890 and if he took it from her mother. 1213 00:43:32,890 --> 00:43:34,540 And that was a significant moment 1214 00:43:34,540 --> 00:43:35,965 that turning because 1215 00:43:35,965 --> 00:43:37,015 it's really a kind of 1216 00:43:37,015 --> 00:43:39,475 autobiographical progress from going, 1217 00:43:39,475 --> 00:43:43,255 trying to be an, a national poet, 1218 00:43:43,255 --> 00:43:44,919 going to New York, trying to make, 1219 00:43:44,919 --> 00:43:45,639 or make it the 1220 00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:47,050 scene in New York and all this. 1221 00:43:47,050 --> 00:43:49,479 And then just utterly being bounced 1222 00:43:49,479 --> 00:43:53,749 back to poverty, rurality. 1223 00:43:53,749 --> 00:43:56,965 I know her, her own kin folk and, 1224 00:43:56,965 --> 00:43:59,320 and the weird people she grew up with in 1225 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:00,475 this little part of 1226 00:44:00,475 --> 00:44:02,949 the world that nobody knows anything about. 1227 00:44:02,949 --> 00:44:04,839 But then she turns it into 1228 00:44:04,839 --> 00:44:06,609 a triumph of work of art. 1229 00:44:06,609 --> 00:44:10,464 You know, because of its original. 1230 00:44:10,464 --> 00:44:12,939 It's not what everybody else is doing. 1231 00:44:12,939 --> 00:44:14,275 Right? 1232 00:44:14,275 --> 00:44:16,030 Yeah, and I think, I mean, 1233 00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:17,949 when I I feel like I 1234 00:44:17,949 --> 00:44:20,274 read a lot of poetry and magazines that it, 1235 00:44:20,274 --> 00:44:21,609 it, it starts to 1236 00:44:21,609 --> 00:44:23,170 all kind of sound the same to me. 1237 00:44:23,170 --> 00:44:24,429 And I know part of that is just 1238 00:44:24,429 --> 00:44:27,399 like in any generation, 1239 00:44:27,399 --> 00:44:29,680 there's kind of like stylistic things 1240 00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:31,029 that a lot of people 1241 00:44:31,029 --> 00:44:32,499 decide that they want to try and, 1242 00:44:32,499 --> 00:44:34,210 and it also kinda started sending the same. 1243 00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:38,415 But I feel like I don't know who I am. 1244 00:44:38,415 --> 00:44:40,560 I am always looking for like that kind of 1245 00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,265 super interesting word that shows me someone. 1246 00:44:44,265 --> 00:44:46,049 It's from somewhere because 1247 00:44:46,049 --> 00:44:47,280 we're all from somewhere, 1248 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,509 but maybe it doesn't always make 1249 00:44:48,509 --> 00:44:49,934 it into the pons and, 1250 00:44:49,934 --> 00:44:51,719 and I get very excited when I see that. 1251 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,084 So thank you for reminding me about that. 1252 00:44:53,084 --> 00:44:54,179 I'm going to read that book before 1253 00:44:54,179 --> 00:44:55,259 I come to 10 minutes, 1254 00:44:55,259 --> 00:44:56,460 I'm going to be ready to talk about that. 1255 00:44:56,460 --> 00:44:59,159 But to what you just said, You said Why? 1256 00:44:59,159 --> 00:45:00,360 No, no. I know. 1257 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:04,589 I sound good idea. When no. 1258 00:45:04,589 --> 00:45:05,670 No, no. 1259 00:45:05,670 --> 00:45:08,190 No, no, no, no, no. 1260 00:45:08,190 --> 00:45:12,524 To and I say why not necessary. 1261 00:45:12,524 --> 00:45:14,624 I think that one known agenda. 1262 00:45:14,624 --> 00:45:15,734 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 1263 00:45:15,734 --> 00:45:16,890 That's that's how I made 1264 00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:18,665 the association rule mining. 1265 00:45:18,665 --> 00:45:20,919 I mean, we should we really like, I mean, 1266 00:45:20,919 --> 00:45:22,614 even the way we say it is sort of flat 1267 00:45:22,614 --> 00:45:25,224 Midwestern on its own either way we say it, 1268 00:45:25,224 --> 00:45:26,709 but we should be more like 1269 00:45:26,709 --> 00:45:28,509 we know now, right? 1270 00:45:28,509 --> 00:45:29,950 Yeah, right. And we have stress 1271 00:45:29,950 --> 00:45:31,239 on different syllables anyway. 1272 00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,015 So how did the Dakota say it? 1273 00:45:34,015 --> 00:45:35,709 Is the question, like the side of 1274 00:45:35,709 --> 00:45:38,094 the canoe says it late the side of the canoe. 1275 00:45:38,094 --> 00:45:39,804 We know now, right? 1276 00:45:39,804 --> 00:45:41,060 Yeah. 1277 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,474 So yeah. 1278 00:45:45,474 --> 00:45:48,549 Well, maybe it is or is there upon that, 1279 00:45:48,549 --> 00:45:50,470 any one of you would like her to 1280 00:45:50,470 --> 00:45:53,065 read and let me know. 1281 00:45:53,065 --> 00:45:54,949 I'm ready. 1282 00:46:04,130 --> 00:46:12,195 Because if not, I have one current kitchen 1283 00:46:12,195 --> 00:46:14,400 yearly home. 1284 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,589 I'd be selfish if I said it 1285 00:46:16,589 --> 00:46:18,299 will promote, but oh yeah, 1286 00:46:18,299 --> 00:46:19,979 that's the one I was just thinking 1287 00:46:19,979 --> 00:46:21,240 off what I was going to be 1288 00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,624 hopefully what well, let me find it. 1289 00:46:23,624 --> 00:46:25,949 Because to me that's 1290 00:46:25,949 --> 00:46:27,029 interesting because we got to hear 1291 00:46:27,029 --> 00:46:29,099 how you read that because that's 1292 00:46:29,099 --> 00:46:30,345 in a completely different 1293 00:46:30,345 --> 00:46:31,695 linguistic situation. 1294 00:46:31,695 --> 00:46:33,464 With no, that's good. 1295 00:46:33,464 --> 00:46:34,650 That's the one that was 1296 00:46:34,650 --> 00:46:35,910 one I wouldn't suggest it to. 1297 00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:38,159 Okay. Well, I mean, 1298 00:46:38,159 --> 00:46:39,209 this is great because 1299 00:46:39,209 --> 00:46:39,990 I have a phone date with 1300 00:46:39,990 --> 00:46:42,345 my sister right after this there. 1301 00:46:42,345 --> 00:46:43,350 It'll be great. 1302 00:46:43,350 --> 00:46:44,669 Well, we'll see we'll see what kind 1303 00:46:44,669 --> 00:46:47,630 of Uber She's been doing these days. 1304 00:46:47,850 --> 00:46:52,045 Overload. I'll also 1305 00:46:52,045 --> 00:46:53,649 I'm going to pronounce it. 1306 00:46:53,649 --> 00:46:55,239 That's how I pronounce 1307 00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:56,319 it, but I don't know if that's right. 1308 00:46:56,319 --> 00:46:58,164 Andrew, what would you say? 1309 00:46:58,164 --> 00:47:00,219 Ag get enough. 1310 00:47:00,219 --> 00:47:02,439 Who knows how it depends on if it's 1311 00:47:02,439 --> 00:47:05,275 comes from or noise which I believe it does. 1312 00:47:05,275 --> 00:47:07,645 Then the d at the end to soft. 1313 00:47:07,645 --> 00:47:12,349 How would you say? 1314 00:47:12,810 --> 00:47:14,979 Oh no, I was thinking about 1315 00:47:14,979 --> 00:47:16,315 this warrior's name. 1316 00:47:16,315 --> 00:47:17,379 Oh, the warrior's name. 1317 00:47:17,379 --> 00:47:18,670 Okay. Sorry. I thought 1318 00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:20,799 you're talking about the actual title. 1319 00:47:20,799 --> 00:47:23,559 Well, anyway, I always kind of I feel 1320 00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:24,729 like I pronounced beard note 1321 00:47:24,729 --> 00:47:25,630 in a lot of different ways. 1322 00:47:25,630 --> 00:47:26,350 I'm just going to see 1323 00:47:26,350 --> 00:47:27,579 what comes out of the mouth. 1324 00:47:27,579 --> 00:47:32,110 Okay, now I'm going to overload. 1325 00:47:32,110 --> 00:47:35,484 Now. Tell me one difference. 1326 00:47:35,484 --> 00:47:37,810 My sister says between 1327 00:47:37,810 --> 00:47:40,734 Old English and new English. 1328 00:47:40,734 --> 00:47:43,809 Well, Old English has 1329 00:47:43,809 --> 00:47:45,954 a word for our kind of people. 1330 00:47:45,954 --> 00:47:50,050 Over mode, literally over mind, 1331 00:47:50,050 --> 00:47:53,184 or over heart, or over spirits. 1332 00:47:53,184 --> 00:47:56,815 Often translated over proud. 1333 00:47:56,815 --> 00:48:00,249 When the warrior beard node over 1334 00:48:00,249 --> 00:48:02,290 fool invited the Vikings 1335 00:48:02,290 --> 00:48:04,720 across the board at Melbourne. 1336 00:48:04,720 --> 00:48:08,754 His smaller troop at closer range, 1337 00:48:08,754 --> 00:48:12,730 his own pride proved deadlier than the gold 1338 00:48:12,730 --> 00:48:14,769 tilted and file hard towards 1339 00:48:14,769 --> 00:48:17,605 the poet gleefully describes. 1340 00:48:17,605 --> 00:48:19,585 And aren't we like that? 1341 00:48:19,585 --> 00:48:21,340 High, strong and over 1342 00:48:21,340 --> 00:48:23,979 mode is our daddy and granddaddy and 1343 00:48:23,979 --> 00:48:25,090 everybody else and are 1344 00:48:25,090 --> 00:48:26,830 stiff neck mountain town 1345 00:48:26,830 --> 00:48:29,545 always with something stupid to prove. 1346 00:48:29,545 --> 00:48:31,300 Doing 80 all the 1347 00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:32,905 way to the head of the haller, 1348 00:48:32,905 --> 00:48:35,289 weaving through the double lines, 1349 00:48:35,289 --> 00:48:37,465 splinting a door slammed 1350 00:48:37,465 --> 00:48:39,579 finger with Popsicle sticks 1351 00:48:39,579 --> 00:48:41,244 and electrical tape, 1352 00:48:41,244 --> 00:48:43,389 not filling out the forms for 1353 00:48:43,389 --> 00:48:47,269 food stamps though we know we qualify. 1354 00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:51,015 Sister, I've seen UCAS, 1355 00:48:51,015 --> 00:48:54,975 rivals, teachers, doctor's, 1356 00:48:54,975 --> 00:48:58,740 bill collectors, lawyers, cousins, 1357 00:48:58,740 --> 00:49:01,290 strangers at the red light or the Walmart, 1358 00:49:01,290 --> 00:49:03,554 you start it, you finish it, 1359 00:49:03,554 --> 00:49:04,949 you everything in-between 1360 00:49:04,949 --> 00:49:06,090 it whether it's with 1361 00:49:06,090 --> 00:49:09,555 your fists or a two-by-four or car door. 1362 00:49:09,555 --> 00:49:11,790 And it doesn't matter that your foes 1363 00:49:11,790 --> 00:49:15,824 stronger, polar, better armed. 1364 00:49:15,824 --> 00:49:18,929 I don't tell a soul when I'm down to 1365 00:49:18,929 --> 00:49:21,915 flower and tuna and a half bag of beans. 1366 00:49:21,915 --> 00:49:24,389 So you've not seen me do without just to 1367 00:49:24,389 --> 00:49:26,969 do without just for spike at them. 1368 00:49:26,969 --> 00:49:30,724 Who told us it's a sin to be beholden. 1369 00:49:30,724 --> 00:49:33,069 If you're a beard note lying 1370 00:49:33,069 --> 00:49:34,795 and got it on the ground, 1371 00:49:34,795 --> 00:49:37,974 speechifying at the troops, he's doomed. 1372 00:49:37,974 --> 00:49:39,490 Then I'm the idiot 1373 00:49:39,490 --> 00:49:41,139 campaign or fighting beside, 1374 00:49:41,139 --> 00:49:42,430 he has hacked up lord, 1375 00:49:42,430 --> 00:49:44,455 instead of turning tail, 1376 00:49:44,455 --> 00:49:47,994 insisting, mind must be the harder Heart, 1377 00:49:47,994 --> 00:49:49,900 the keener spirit, the 1378 00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:53,245 greater as our strength lessons. 1379 00:49:53,245 --> 00:49:56,515 Now, does that sound familiar? 1380 00:49:56,515 --> 00:49:59,199 We bought it all our lives and 1381 00:49:59,199 --> 00:50:01,555 it's been sold by drunkards, 1382 00:50:01,555 --> 00:50:03,415 browsers, voters, 1383 00:50:03,415 --> 00:50:06,910 soldiers, brighter is with a single code. 1384 00:50:06,910 --> 00:50:09,520 You might be undermined girl, 1385 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,309 but don't You never be under mode. 1386 00:50:12,309 --> 00:50:16,220 Oh, thanks. 1387 00:50:18,750 --> 00:50:21,999 Yes, I love the reference 1388 00:50:21,999 --> 00:50:23,095 to the bottle molten, 1389 00:50:23,095 --> 00:50:26,260 which is so like the scene as essentially 1390 00:50:26,260 --> 00:50:31,119 is under prepared leader who's, 1391 00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,114 who clearly is going to get destroyed. 1392 00:50:33,114 --> 00:50:35,064 Basically says come at me. 1393 00:50:35,064 --> 00:50:35,769 You have to put it 1394 00:50:35,769 --> 00:50:37,239 in colloquial terms, right? 1395 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,874 Yeah. And it's over 1396 00:50:41,874 --> 00:50:43,510 or for or for mode is 1397 00:50:43,510 --> 00:50:45,595 the successive pride, right? 1398 00:50:45,595 --> 00:50:46,884 Yeah. 1399 00:50:46,884 --> 00:50:49,270 Absolutely. I think 1400 00:50:49,270 --> 00:50:53,049 the most accurate translation of a mole, 1401 00:50:53,049 --> 00:50:55,090 if I'm old noise would be courage, 1402 00:50:55,090 --> 00:50:56,769 which still would make sense, right? 1403 00:50:56,769 --> 00:50:58,720 It's over courage. 1404 00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,999 Courageous like you don't realize 1405 00:51:00,999 --> 00:51:02,320 the consequences of that parade and 1406 00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:03,519 that you have you don't have a chance 1407 00:51:03,519 --> 00:51:05,124 kind of thing, right? 1408 00:51:05,124 --> 00:51:08,499 Yeah. There's a lot there are 1409 00:51:08,499 --> 00:51:11,289 entire articles arguing the meaning 1410 00:51:11,289 --> 00:51:13,909 of it within that home. 1411 00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,260 And they take it apart 1412 00:51:17,260 --> 00:51:20,050 from everything from from, 1413 00:51:20,050 --> 00:51:21,190 uh, you're saying recklessness, 1414 00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:24,459 irrational to override or excessive pride. 1415 00:51:24,459 --> 00:51:26,379 And try to sort of figure out what 1416 00:51:26,379 --> 00:51:28,300 it should mean because obviously, 1417 00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:29,110 it's not like there's 1418 00:51:29,110 --> 00:51:32,904 an explicit definition, right? 1419 00:51:32,904 --> 00:51:35,349 Yeah. But typically it gets translated as 1420 00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:35,950 because of 1421 00:51:35,950 --> 00:51:38,754 his over-confidence or great pride. 1422 00:51:38,754 --> 00:51:39,999 Yeah. 1423 00:51:39,999 --> 00:51:40,479 Yeah. 1424 00:51:40,479 --> 00:51:41,859 And I, I think one thing 1425 00:51:41,859 --> 00:51:43,449 that I really felt when I was 1426 00:51:43,449 --> 00:51:44,650 studying Old English and I 1427 00:51:44,650 --> 00:51:46,764 was translating pawns, you know, 1428 00:51:46,764 --> 00:51:49,845 I, I translated part of this when we print, 1429 00:51:49,845 --> 00:51:51,325 like, I think a class when we translate it 1430 00:51:51,325 --> 00:51:53,334 all at Beowulf that was insane. 1431 00:51:53,334 --> 00:51:54,939 And you know, I mean like translating like 1432 00:51:54,939 --> 00:51:56,499 fortunes of men or the wonder. 1433 00:51:56,499 --> 00:51:57,865 And I love all those cones. 1434 00:51:57,865 --> 00:51:59,290 But I just felt, 1435 00:51:59,290 --> 00:52:00,639 I felt like Old English 1436 00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,529 felt so Appalachian to me. 1437 00:52:02,529 --> 00:52:05,184 It was so grim and cold. 1438 00:52:05,184 --> 00:52:07,330 And there's just this kind of a humorous, 1439 00:52:07,330 --> 00:52:09,130 fatalistic feel about it. 1440 00:52:09,130 --> 00:52:10,539 And I was just like this just 1441 00:52:10,539 --> 00:52:12,159 feels really write to me. 1442 00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:14,560 And so I feel like that's one reason 1443 00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:15,760 that I've started to kinda weaving 1444 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:17,140 together the Southern, 1445 00:52:17,140 --> 00:52:18,790 The Old English in 1446 00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:20,439 some of the poems in his book is good. 1447 00:52:20,439 --> 00:52:22,045 Just felt so familiar. 1448 00:52:22,045 --> 00:52:23,244 Yeah. 1449 00:52:23,244 --> 00:52:25,044 It's still, it's still a communist, 1450 00:52:25,044 --> 00:52:26,620 which is still used very, 1451 00:52:26,620 --> 00:52:27,640 very commonly in Danish. 1452 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:29,844 That word is still used. And we'll 1453 00:52:29,844 --> 00:52:31,689 talk about almost all the time. 1454 00:52:31,689 --> 00:52:35,289 When somebody does something that potentially 1455 00:52:35,289 --> 00:52:36,489 it looks like it's very 1456 00:52:36,489 --> 00:52:38,695 courageous but it's bound to fail. 1457 00:52:38,695 --> 00:52:40,194 I mean, it was like, wow, he's 1458 00:52:40,194 --> 00:52:42,474 he's way to Alamouti. 1459 00:52:42,474 --> 00:52:45,610 I mean, we haven't both as a noun, 1460 00:52:45,610 --> 00:52:47,439 as an adjective and all kinds of stuff. 1461 00:52:47,439 --> 00:52:49,659 I mean, you can use those different things. 1462 00:52:49,659 --> 00:52:51,549 And in Old English it appears as a noun, 1463 00:52:51,549 --> 00:52:53,380 an adjective, a verb. There is. 1464 00:52:53,380 --> 00:52:55,825 Yeah, you can over mode. Yeah. 1465 00:52:55,825 --> 00:52:58,975 Yeah. I mean, yeah. 1466 00:52:58,975 --> 00:53:01,345 Well, yeah. I mean, 1467 00:53:01,345 --> 00:53:03,204 this is the warrior culture, right? 1468 00:53:03,204 --> 00:53:05,814 Is, it's all based on pride in, 1469 00:53:05,814 --> 00:53:10,539 on this idea that your, 1470 00:53:10,539 --> 00:53:12,789 your, your courage is all your hat based. 1471 00:53:12,789 --> 00:53:14,589 Whether it's an ancient 1472 00:53:14,589 --> 00:53:17,620 Greek or whether it's Old English. 1473 00:53:17,620 --> 00:53:19,179 The warrior cultures always sort of 1474 00:53:19,179 --> 00:53:20,844 similar in that respect, but, 1475 00:53:20,844 --> 00:53:23,199 but then the downside of it is similar to 1476 00:53:23,199 --> 00:53:26,305 that of the wrath of Achilles or whatever. 1477 00:53:26,305 --> 00:53:28,420 The tensity go berserk 1478 00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:30,740 like a Viking like that. 1479 00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:35,964 And I think the notion of the Highlanders, 1480 00:53:35,964 --> 00:53:38,229 me for To me it sounds very Scottish. 1481 00:53:38,229 --> 00:53:41,724 And of course that makes sense. 1482 00:53:41,724 --> 00:53:42,895 Yeah, but the difference with 1483 00:53:42,895 --> 00:53:44,260 Islanders in the lowlanders, 1484 00:53:44,260 --> 00:53:45,280 the Highlanders, other ones 1485 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:46,840 that are going to be over mode. 1486 00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:49,810 But it's a different construction. 1487 00:53:49,810 --> 00:53:51,940 The construction of a culture is 1488 00:53:51,940 --> 00:53:55,279 a warrior shame culture where you're in. 1489 00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:59,320 So yeah. 1490 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,425 There there was a moment in here. 1491 00:54:02,425 --> 00:54:06,580 Tyler Childers is the singer. Yeah. 1492 00:54:06,580 --> 00:54:07,270 Yeah. 1493 00:54:07,270 --> 00:54:10,209 He went in the George Floyd moment. 1494 00:54:10,209 --> 00:54:12,459 He put out a song 1495 00:54:12,459 --> 00:54:14,590 where he's basically saying, 1496 00:54:14,590 --> 00:54:18,340 if anyone has all his kin are of course, 1497 00:54:18,340 --> 00:54:20,740 being very racist about this moment. 1498 00:54:20,740 --> 00:54:22,779 And he puts out a song saying, 1499 00:54:22,779 --> 00:54:25,209 if any one of, if any of our kids, 1500 00:54:25,209 --> 00:54:27,370 if any in my clan or my family, 1501 00:54:27,370 --> 00:54:29,529 were being treated by the police. 1502 00:54:29,529 --> 00:54:30,790 The way this guy's clan 1503 00:54:30,790 --> 00:54:32,484 in his family's treated. 1504 00:54:32,484 --> 00:54:34,329 There are Peano stop and 1505 00:54:34,329 --> 00:54:36,205 the war in the hills. 1506 00:54:36,205 --> 00:54:37,959 Like you're all up in arms 1507 00:54:37,959 --> 00:54:40,359 about if you violent incidents. 1508 00:54:40,359 --> 00:54:41,710 But, you know, 1509 00:54:41,710 --> 00:54:43,375 we're we're a feud and culture. 1510 00:54:43,375 --> 00:54:46,120 And he was, he was trying to, 1511 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,640 trying to connect to say, look, you know, 1512 00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:50,530 this sort of because 1513 00:54:50,530 --> 00:54:51,309 he wasn't really talking about 1514 00:54:51,309 --> 00:54:52,539 George Floyd's murder so much as 1515 00:54:52,539 --> 00:54:54,400 the aftermath and whether 1516 00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:55,360 some people got angry and 1517 00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:56,604 started wanted to fight about it. 1518 00:54:56,604 --> 00:54:58,299 He's say, we wouldn't you. 1519 00:54:58,299 --> 00:55:00,430 I thought that was really interesting, 1520 00:55:00,430 --> 00:55:02,079 an interesting response, and he got a lot 1521 00:55:02,079 --> 00:55:03,804 of crap for it, but he did it. 1522 00:55:03,804 --> 00:55:06,369 So it's an appellation, you know, 1523 00:55:06,369 --> 00:55:09,744 Eastern Kentucky guy saying 1524 00:55:09,744 --> 00:55:11,425 making a connection with 1525 00:55:11,425 --> 00:55:13,255 with that. It's interesting. 1526 00:55:13,255 --> 00:55:14,905 That is interesting. 1527 00:55:14,905 --> 00:55:17,000 Yeah, it is. 1528 00:55:18,390 --> 00:55:20,454 I think class Melissa, 1529 00:55:20,454 --> 00:55:23,815 question about a process. 1530 00:55:23,815 --> 00:55:25,990 Yeah, I love talking about process. 1531 00:55:25,990 --> 00:55:26,589 Okay. 1532 00:55:26,589 --> 00:55:30,729 So in last couplet and 1533 00:55:30,729 --> 00:55:32,799 then three couplets above 1534 00:55:32,799 --> 00:55:35,395 that same poem we were just discussing, 1535 00:55:35,395 --> 00:55:37,644 where the speaker addresses 1536 00:55:37,644 --> 00:55:38,954 sister now dumped that sound 1537 00:55:38,954 --> 00:55:44,154 familiar and you'd never be under mode. 1538 00:55:44,154 --> 00:55:48,429 When you are including kind 1539 00:55:48,429 --> 00:55:50,229 of phrases in your writing that 1540 00:55:50,229 --> 00:55:52,554 really model the speech. 1541 00:55:52,554 --> 00:55:56,485 Yeah. How do you decide where to, 1542 00:55:56,485 --> 00:55:58,540 where to place those in poems, 1543 00:55:58,540 --> 00:56:00,669 and which poems lend themselves 1544 00:56:00,669 --> 00:56:03,369 best to those structures? 1545 00:56:03,369 --> 00:56:05,230 As a really good question, 1546 00:56:05,230 --> 00:56:06,489 I think a lot of times it's 1547 00:56:06,489 --> 00:56:09,550 just pure sound kind of drives my decisions. 1548 00:56:09,550 --> 00:56:12,535 Like what, what sound do I want here? 1549 00:56:12,535 --> 00:56:14,019 You know, what? 1550 00:56:14,019 --> 00:56:16,239 You know what sounds, right? 1551 00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,474 And also whose voice am I hearing? 1552 00:56:18,474 --> 00:56:20,845 So at the end it's like, you know, 1553 00:56:20,845 --> 00:56:24,685 I can just hear all these all these men, 1554 00:56:24,685 --> 00:56:27,160 you know, like don't you never do this, 1555 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,139 don't you never take a hand-out, don't you? 1556 00:56:29,139 --> 00:56:30,339 Never blah. And I'm like, Well, 1557 00:56:30,339 --> 00:56:32,304 of course I have to say that. 1558 00:56:32,304 --> 00:56:35,359 And I feel like now that sounds familiar. 1559 00:56:35,359 --> 00:56:38,724 That's also very much like that, 1560 00:56:38,724 --> 00:56:40,495 like how I would touch my sister. 1561 00:56:40,495 --> 00:56:40,839 Sure. 1562 00:56:40,839 --> 00:56:44,665 Now so that's a really good question. 1563 00:56:44,665 --> 00:56:46,465 I feel like also, 1564 00:56:46,465 --> 00:56:48,279 I mean, probably not consciously, 1565 00:56:48,279 --> 00:56:51,249 but now I can see that it kind of is 1566 00:56:51,249 --> 00:56:53,650 a punchline moment to after 1567 00:56:53,650 --> 00:56:54,969 I've kind of done this like 1568 00:56:54,969 --> 00:56:56,425 quoted translation of this, 1569 00:56:56,425 --> 00:56:57,790 an English poem that's like this, 1570 00:56:57,790 --> 00:56:59,829 beautiful like mindmaps be the harder Heart, 1571 00:56:59,829 --> 00:57:01,480 the keener data that's like 1572 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,489 high pollutant kind of 1573 00:57:03,489 --> 00:57:04,989 sound, that sound familiar. 1574 00:57:04,989 --> 00:57:07,315 So it's just like kind of undercut moment 1575 00:57:07,315 --> 00:57:09,505 though that might be one reason. 1576 00:57:09,505 --> 00:57:11,964 And I think also the rhythm 1577 00:57:11,964 --> 00:57:14,364 of you might be undermined girl, 1578 00:57:14,364 --> 00:57:16,029 but don't You never be under mode. 1579 00:57:16,029 --> 00:57:17,080 I think that Don't you 1580 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120 never helps the rhythm of the, 1581 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:20,439 of that last line too, 1582 00:57:20,439 --> 00:57:22,090 at least for me it does. 1583 00:57:22,090 --> 00:57:24,174 Well, how in the poem 1584 00:57:24,174 --> 00:57:26,709 the sister opens with, now, 1585 00:57:26,709 --> 00:57:29,560 tell me one difference and now 1586 00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:30,999 don't that sound familiar that 1587 00:57:30,999 --> 00:57:32,725 that call and response a little bit. 1588 00:57:32,725 --> 00:57:33,789 I appreciate that. 1589 00:57:33,789 --> 00:57:35,200 Yeah, cool. Well, thank you. 1590 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,409 And I don't even know if that was conscious. 1591 00:57:38,409 --> 00:57:40,450 I'm sure eventually I'm 1592 00:57:40,450 --> 00:57:42,909 maybe noticed or maybe not there. 1593 00:57:42,909 --> 00:57:44,379 Sometimes we just don't even notice 1594 00:57:44,379 --> 00:57:46,479 these things, but yeah, 1595 00:57:46,479 --> 00:57:48,130 that does that is it is often 1596 00:57:48,130 --> 00:57:50,829 how it's kind of like flat, 1597 00:57:50,829 --> 00:57:52,000 just like Well where are 1598 00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:53,199 coming in on this topic. 1599 00:57:53,199 --> 00:57:59,659 So now, so, you know, I get it. 1600 00:58:00,450 --> 00:58:02,815 I think it's interesting too, 1601 00:58:02,815 --> 00:58:04,209 because I'm thinking about this word. 1602 00:58:04,209 --> 00:58:07,510 And another use of the word is 1603 00:58:07,510 --> 00:58:11,020 in a retelling of the fall of the angels. 1604 00:58:11,020 --> 00:58:12,730 And Satan is described 1605 00:58:12,730 --> 00:58:14,815 as having awesome mode. 1606 00:58:14,815 --> 00:58:17,905 And now when it's pretty unambiguous 1607 00:58:17,905 --> 00:58:20,109 that a Satan's Hofer mode 1608 00:58:20,109 --> 00:58:21,820 is a negative thing, right? 1609 00:58:21,820 --> 00:58:23,890 It's, the poet does not 1610 00:58:23,890 --> 00:58:27,354 appreciate Satan's and overnight. 1611 00:58:27,354 --> 00:58:28,359 But it's a little more 1612 00:58:28,359 --> 00:58:30,084 ambiguous and molten, right? 1613 00:58:30,084 --> 00:58:33,985 It's almost like without the mode. 1614 00:58:33,985 --> 00:58:36,520 There is no story, Kino. 1615 00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,809 And also there's no, I don't know. 1616 00:58:40,809 --> 00:58:43,359 It's almost like it's figured as like 1617 00:58:43,359 --> 00:58:44,889 it's his duty to have 1618 00:58:44,889 --> 00:58:46,539 this like he has to have less. 1619 00:58:46,539 --> 00:58:47,890 It's part of his identity. 1620 00:58:47,890 --> 00:58:49,404 Yeah. And so there's less. 1621 00:58:49,404 --> 00:58:51,985 I feel like in the reference to mall, 1622 00:58:51,985 --> 00:58:55,359 I think you're kind of celebrating. 1623 00:58:55,359 --> 00:58:57,700 Mood in some ways, I don't know. 1624 00:58:57,700 --> 00:58:59,200 Compared to like, I don't know. 1625 00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,085 Do what do you what do you think? 1626 00:59:00,085 --> 00:59:01,089 Do you think? 1627 00:59:01,089 --> 00:59:05,185 Do you think that kids are using the term, 1628 00:59:05,185 --> 00:59:06,279 cuz it the way you sort 1629 00:59:06,279 --> 00:59:07,689 of chronicle its uses. 1630 00:59:07,689 --> 00:59:09,760 Or do you think it's 1631 00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,339 obviously it's something you there 1632 00:59:12,339 --> 00:59:13,480 you're pointing out as 1633 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:14,529 a badge that you were kind 1634 00:59:14,529 --> 00:59:17,365 of probably in some ways, I don't know. 1635 00:59:17,365 --> 00:59:19,749 To me, I felt like I was kind of 1636 00:59:19,749 --> 00:59:22,569 interrogating it, but I'll benefit. 1637 00:59:22,569 --> 00:59:24,429 So not really saying 1638 00:59:24,429 --> 00:59:26,530 it's good or bad necessarily, 1639 00:59:26,530 --> 00:59:28,390 although I do think that there is, I mean, 1640 00:59:28,390 --> 00:59:29,770 obviously it's over pride, 1641 00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:32,650 so there's some pride in being this way. 1642 00:59:32,650 --> 00:59:34,540 But, but I feel like 1643 00:59:34,540 --> 00:59:37,989 one thing I'm kind of thinking about it. 1644 00:59:37,989 --> 00:59:39,970 Well, this is this 1645 00:59:39,970 --> 00:59:41,440 is how we are at my sister and I, 1646 00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:43,659 we both have these like raging bad tempers 1647 00:59:43,659 --> 00:59:45,309 and super big pride. 1648 00:59:45,309 --> 00:59:46,959 And it comes out in different ways 1649 00:59:46,959 --> 00:59:47,259 because we're 1650 00:59:47,259 --> 00:59:48,640 different people bed and I'm like, 1651 00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,910 Okay, how we become this way. 1652 00:59:51,910 --> 00:59:52,900 And I'm like the culture 1653 00:59:52,900 --> 00:59:54,189 Tatas to be this way. 1654 00:59:54,189 --> 00:59:56,229 The culture taught us be overload. 1655 00:59:56,229 --> 00:59:59,230 You know, I have a wonderful friend 1656 00:59:59,230 --> 01:00:00,730 who passed away two years ago and 1657 01:00:00,730 --> 01:00:02,350 a fiction writer named Katherine men. 1658 01:00:02,350 --> 01:00:03,430 And I just loved her so 1659 01:00:03,430 --> 01:00:05,019 much and she loved to kind 1660 01:00:05,019 --> 01:00:06,880 of pose provocative questions 1661 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:07,944 to groups of people. 1662 01:00:07,944 --> 01:00:10,089 And so one thing she would say is, Well, 1663 01:00:10,089 --> 01:00:12,489 are you in Iliad person or an odyssey person? 1664 01:00:12,489 --> 01:00:14,590 And I'm just like an iliac person. 1665 01:00:14,590 --> 01:00:15,700 And I remember saying 1666 01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:16,930 that it's the one I wanted to just 1667 01:00:16,930 --> 01:00:18,400 like that horrible who would 1668 01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,274 ever be an iliac person look like? 1669 01:00:20,274 --> 01:00:22,149 I don't know, like what's so bad about it. 1670 01:00:22,149 --> 01:00:23,319 And she's just like, 1671 01:00:23,319 --> 01:00:24,640 you know, but it's like, well, 1672 01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,230 do you think live is a war or do 1673 01:00:26,230 --> 01:00:27,879 you think life is a journey? 1674 01:00:27,879 --> 01:00:28,989 And it's like you keep in mind, is 1675 01:00:28,989 --> 01:00:30,414 it's already even you're like, 1676 01:00:30,414 --> 01:00:32,950 I'm just going to keep on traveling 1677 01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:35,590 and see what happens. That's Odysseus. 1678 01:00:35,590 --> 01:00:37,809 But if you're newly eyed person, then you're, 1679 01:00:37,809 --> 01:00:39,010 then you're probably over mode 1680 01:00:39,010 --> 01:00:40,764 to, you know, yeah. 1681 01:00:40,764 --> 01:00:42,669 It's like, okay, it's me 1682 01:00:42,669 --> 01:00:45,100 against this world here I go with, 1683 01:00:45,100 --> 01:00:46,989 but there is no Odyssey went up Iliad. 1684 01:00:46,989 --> 01:00:49,190 So fence, right? 1685 01:00:50,190 --> 01:00:54,070 So that's why I think that, I mean, 1686 01:00:54,070 --> 01:00:55,180 even that's that's sort of 1687 01:00:55,180 --> 01:00:57,130 the point and I think it's like if 1688 01:00:57,130 --> 01:00:58,929 you can call it overpriced and sort 1689 01:00:58,929 --> 01:01:00,879 of negative thing or you could say, 1690 01:01:00,879 --> 01:01:02,739 well, that's what's demanded. 1691 01:01:02,739 --> 01:01:07,510 I mean, nobody who's realistic about 1692 01:01:07,510 --> 01:01:10,209 their own abilities will 1693 01:01:10,209 --> 01:01:12,040 accomplish anything probably, right? 1694 01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,784 You have to be a little bit, you know, 1695 01:01:14,784 --> 01:01:16,570 a little bit not delusional, 1696 01:01:16,570 --> 01:01:17,650 but that's not what I'm 1697 01:01:17,650 --> 01:01:19,030 looking for. But here's that. 1698 01:01:19,030 --> 01:01:21,219 There's a line there between saying, 1699 01:01:21,219 --> 01:01:23,650 I got this and do I have this? 1700 01:01:23,650 --> 01:01:25,254 I'm not sure, you know, 1701 01:01:25,254 --> 01:01:28,180 and I guess if I were in a battle, 1702 01:01:28,180 --> 01:01:33,410 I rather have been then indecision. 1703 01:01:33,570 --> 01:01:38,449 So absolutely. 1704 01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,400 Well, I think we've we've kinda come 1705 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,889 up on the end of our hours discussion, 1706 01:01:44,889 --> 01:01:46,059 but I would like to hear 1707 01:01:46,059 --> 01:01:47,230 one more poem and I'm 1708 01:01:47,230 --> 01:01:48,669 going to suggest regionalism. 1709 01:01:48,669 --> 01:01:50,244 Would that be a good one? 1710 01:01:50,244 --> 01:01:55,719 All right, I love written now and so, 1711 01:01:55,719 --> 01:01:58,299 and I will say just for, 1712 01:01:58,299 --> 01:01:59,049 just for everybody who 1713 01:01:59,049 --> 01:02:00,624 might be watching this. 1714 01:02:00,624 --> 01:02:03,849 If you've ever had the way you talk, 1715 01:02:03,849 --> 01:02:05,500 made fun of this poem is for you. 1716 01:02:05,500 --> 01:02:07,780 So I, I felt 1717 01:02:07,780 --> 01:02:11,260 like I always good to make this joke. 1718 01:02:11,260 --> 01:02:12,985 I'll probably make it when I read 1719 01:02:12,985 --> 01:02:16,555 at 10 to that, 1720 01:02:16,555 --> 01:02:18,190 this Pong came after 1721 01:02:18,190 --> 01:02:20,650 like 20 years and mocked. 1722 01:02:20,650 --> 01:02:22,780 And one day I just got so angry, 1723 01:02:22,780 --> 01:02:25,419 I just went and sat down in the library at 1724 01:02:25,419 --> 01:02:26,560 the University of Missouri 1725 01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:27,700 row supposed to be studying 1726 01:02:27,700 --> 01:02:30,399 for my comps and wrote this poem instead. 1727 01:02:30,399 --> 01:02:32,320 So angry Villa. 1728 01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,029 Now you're angry about 1729 01:02:34,029 --> 01:02:35,140 something and write a bill and now 1730 01:02:35,140 --> 01:02:37,269 it's a good way to express it. 1731 01:02:37,269 --> 01:02:39,550 And I'm also, I'm 1732 01:02:39,550 --> 01:02:42,670 referencing the end of the novel, Absalom, 1733 01:02:42,670 --> 01:02:47,035 Absalom aware and this character, 1734 01:02:47,035 --> 01:02:48,774 Shreve, I think it is, 1735 01:02:48,774 --> 01:02:51,384 says to the main character who is 1736 01:02:51,384 --> 01:02:55,779 from Alabama, alabama, Mississippi. 1737 01:02:55,779 --> 01:02:57,745 It's been felt that if Mississippi, 1738 01:02:57,745 --> 01:02:59,905 and he says, Well, why do you hate the South? 1739 01:02:59,905 --> 01:03:01,870 And the main character Quinn said, 1740 01:03:01,870 --> 01:03:03,280 I south, I don't hate it. 1741 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,329 So that's, that's where 1742 01:03:04,329 --> 01:03:06,715 the kind of reframe comes from. 1743 01:03:06,715 --> 01:03:11,139 Regionalism. People mocked the South 1744 01:03:11,139 --> 01:03:13,540 wherever I pass through it. 1745 01:03:13,540 --> 01:03:16,044 So racist, so backward. 1746 01:03:16,044 --> 01:03:19,344 Some nascar, I don't hate it, 1747 01:03:19,344 --> 01:03:23,500 but they all do as if they themselves marched 1748 01:03:23,500 --> 01:03:27,865 out and they're still us about the Civil War, 1749 01:03:27,865 --> 01:03:30,490 mocking the South wherever it is. 1750 01:03:30,490 --> 01:03:32,560 They've never pass through. 1751 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:35,529 It's a formless, humid place 1752 01:03:35,529 --> 01:03:38,619 with bad food except for barbecue. 1753 01:03:38,619 --> 01:03:41,620 The grips slit boiled peanuts, 1754 01:03:41,620 --> 01:03:44,230 sweet tea, thick as tar. 1755 01:03:44,230 --> 01:03:47,170 I don't hate it. But they all do that. 1756 01:03:47,170 --> 01:03:48,745 They love Otis Redding, 1757 01:03:48,745 --> 01:03:51,504 Johnny Cash to be 50 two's. 1758 01:03:51,504 --> 01:03:55,074 The rest of it can go ahead and char. 1759 01:03:55,074 --> 01:03:58,089 People mocked my southern mouth wherever 1760 01:03:58,089 --> 01:04:00,430 our pass through my every Mac could 1761 01:04:00,430 --> 01:04:01,975 have and fixin to 1762 01:04:01,975 --> 01:04:05,979 my flattened vowels that make fire into far. 1763 01:04:05,979 --> 01:04:09,489 I don't, hey, how a talk, where I'm from. 1764 01:04:09,489 --> 01:04:11,109 But they all do their best to make 1765 01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:14,110 me as their last Yahoo. 1766 01:04:14,110 --> 01:04:18,249 Yahoo in world of smear, slur and more. 1767 01:04:18,249 --> 01:04:21,640 People mocked the South. It's past. 1768 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,099 They're never through. I'm damned 1769 01:04:24,099 --> 01:04:27,140 if I don't hate it and damned if I do. 1770 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:32,034 Awesome. Alright, This has 1771 01:04:32,034 --> 01:04:33,219 been a wonderful discussion. 1772 01:04:33,219 --> 01:04:34,330 I want to thank everybody for 1773 01:04:34,330 --> 01:04:36,520 participating and I hope everyone gets 1774 01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:37,899 the CMS Melissa read on 1775 01:04:37,899 --> 01:04:40,630 the 12th of April. He right in. 1776 01:04:40,630 --> 01:04:41,860 Right then we'll know why didn't 1777 01:04:41,860 --> 01:04:43,045 why no net or window, 1778 01:04:43,045 --> 01:04:46,254 depending somewhere in there. 1779 01:04:46,254 --> 01:04:49,689 All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. 1780 01:04:49,689 --> 01:04:50,439 Thanks. 1781 01:04:50,439 --> 01:04:51,205 Thank you. 1782 01:04:51,205 --> 01:04:52,790 Thank you.